Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Thoughts on holidays?

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool

Should people be allowed to go on foreign holidays this year?

No. Close the borders and no holiday travel
41
53%
Allow holiday travel with enforced hotel quarantine on return
7
9%
Let people travel - mum's been vaccinated anyway.
20
26%
Anything else
9
12%
 
Total votes: 77

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8910
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3665 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403351

Postby redsturgeon » April 11th, 2021, 9:07 am

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:
mao44 wrote:It was not announced where they will be administered just that they were considering using them.

Well you ain''t going to get a free one processed by a lab!

Scott.



How does having it processed by a lab guarantee the swabs were taken correctly, or even from the right person?


As I have mentioned previously, sending kits by post provides no guarantees of the test validity. That is why we insist on performing the tests in person and require ID before doing so.

The government however seems happy to continue with postal testing.

John

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403356

Postby Mike4 » April 11th, 2021, 10:00 am

redsturgeon wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:Well you ain''t going to get a free one processed by a lab!

Scott.



How does having it processed by a lab guarantee the swabs were taken correctly, or even from the right person?


As I have mentioned previously, sending kits by post provides no guarantees of the test validity. That is why we insist on performing the tests in person and require ID before doing so.

The government however seems happy to continue with postal testing.

John


This is throwing into sharp focus the big difference in purpose of the two reasons for testing, isn't it?

When LFTs first came out they were really for mass testing AIUI - for identifying and reducing the sheer number of infected people out there and persuading some (or ideally all) of them to self-isolate. A proportion of false negatives and people refusing to self-isolate didn't really matter as by testing at all we were still better off than when no-one was being community-tested. Testing some of the people was/is better than testing none of them, so the accurate ID of who got tested wasn't that important.

For incoming travellers though, the ID of the persons tested is everything. We need to know without room for doubt, who each test result applies to.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8910
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3665 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403369

Postby redsturgeon » April 11th, 2021, 11:00 am

Mike4 wrote:
For incoming travellers though, the ID of the persons tested is everything. We need to know without room for doubt, who each test result applies to.


You may have spotted a flaw in the system!

John

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403370

Postby Julian » April 11th, 2021, 11:06 am

Mike4 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
Mike4 wrote:

How does having it processed by a lab guarantee the swabs were taken correctly, or even from the right person?


As I have mentioned previously, sending kits by post provides no guarantees of the test validity. That is why we insist on performing the tests in person and require ID before doing so.

The government however seems happy to continue with postal testing.

John


This is throwing into sharp focus the big difference in purpose of the two reasons for testing, isn't it?

When LFTs first came out they were really for mass testing AIUI - for identifying and reducing the sheer number of infected people out there and persuading some (or ideally all) of them to self-isolate. A proportion of false negatives and people refusing to self-isolate didn't really matter as by testing at all we were still better off than when no-one was being community-tested. Testing some of the people was/is better than testing none of them, so the accurate ID of who got tested wasn't that important.

For incoming travellers though, the ID of the persons tested is everything. We need to know without room for doubt, who each test result applies to.

Yes. For people requesting lateral flow tests by mail I assume they are all doing that of their own volition, either because they are symptomatic and genuinely want to know if they have Covid-19 or are happy to participate in the asymptomatic testing program and presumably in both cases they are also willing to accept the consequences of a positive test result (home quarantine and at a follow-up PCR test to confirm or if negative they can stop quarantining?) . For the responsible symptomatic people requesting a test they would be self-isolating so a mail-order test is potentially their early route out of quarantine if it came back negative rather than a risk to their lifestyle and/or finances. Someone who really don't want to see a positive test result, e.g. a gig economy worker who is not in a financial position to self-isolate, simply won't request a test even if they become symptomatic. In other circumstances, e.g. schools, the tests are I believe supervised although even there, AIUI from some stuff I've read, there is some level of opt-in because parents can refuse consent for their children to be tested which perhaps they might do if they did not want a positive result ending up with them having to go back to home-schooling a child until they are clear of the virus. I did read a few weeks ago that in some areas quite a high percentage of parents are refusing consent.

In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

- Julian

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7084
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1637 times
Been thanked: 3791 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403377

Postby Mike4 » April 11th, 2021, 11:19 am

Julian wrote:In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

- Julian


But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8910
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3665 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403383

Postby redsturgeon » April 11th, 2021, 11:28 am

Mike4 wrote:
Julian wrote:In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

- Julian


But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.



We have come across several "suspicious" cases of people who were very adamant that although they needed the tests, they were not prepared for us to do the test on them but wanted to self administer the test and post them. We did not take their money...

John

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403387

Postby Dod101 » April 11th, 2021, 11:58 am

Mike4 wrote:
Julian wrote:In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

- Julian


But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.


I am quite certain that the Government understands the risk. Do you really think that one or two members of the public sitting on the sidelines can see the risk better than a government which has all these advisers around it? Of course they understand the risk but they also understand that one way or another they need to keep commerce ticking over and goods moving.

Dod

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403392

Postby Julian » April 11th, 2021, 12:41 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Julian wrote:In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

- Julian


But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.


I am quite certain that the Government understands the risk. Do you really think that one or two members of the public sitting on the sidelines can see the risk better than a government which has all these advisers around it? Of course they understand the risk but they also understand that one way or another they need to keep commerce ticking over and goods moving.

Dod

I agree. Specifically re lorry drivers I did see on the news a week or two (maybe more) ago that there was a plan to "flip" the testing facilities already in place at the cross channel border with France. When B.1.1.7 was running riot in the UK and the continent hoped to reduce the flow across the border apparently France set up testing stations for lorry drivers coming from the UK into France to be tested which apparently is no longer a requirement. The news report I saw said that the plan was now to re-use those same facilities that are still there except this time, instead of French border staff checking drivers coming into France from the UK, it will now be UK staff (I assume) checking drivers coming into the UK from France. Short of effectively stopping such international traffic of goods almost completely, or as someone suggested earlier having driverless handover of containers crossing the channel which although a very clever and solid proposal I think would be a solution with implementation timescales way longer than we need right now, this approach seems to me to be as good as we can get. Those border checks are, I believe, in-person supervised tests so do tick my supervised ID-checked box if I've understood it all correctly. New Zealand and Australia did not have this issue to contend with because they are sufficiently far from all trading partners that no goods are driven into their countries by lorry drivers taking a ferry from China or Japan (for instance), or at least I assume not.

I also worry about variants but maybe not quite as much as Mike. My biggest frustration with the UK's approach to variants, often expressed here, are the deficiencies in our test/trace/isolate system that could be so useful in at least slowing the rate of growth of new variants in the population when such growth is still in the early stages with relatively low numbers. After all this time we still have not used that time to address the deficiencies, in particular it is support for people in the general population who are asked to self-isolate that concerns me. Labour push the government a lot on that aspect and I agree with them. I am told that many other countries do far better than we do on this, some offering hotel accommodation for people whose home circumstances are not conducive to self-isolation and daily calls to people self isolating at home to check they are OK for food etc (and presumably to also check they are complying) etc. I've even heard quite a few people mention New York providing dog walking services to people self-isolating but couldn't find a link to confirm that

I don't think that variants are necessarily about to run riot in the UK, escape the current vaccines, and inevitably doom us to a Q4-2021 national lockdown and a repeat of the hospital overloads but in a worst-case scenario that is at least possible so the more time that we can reasonably buy ourselves by slowing growth of variants of concern in the UK until booster jabs can remove a huge part of the risk the better.

I think some of this is still up in the air. Newspaper rumours aren't guaranteed to be correct, sometimes individual ministers go off message, and I do have at least some confidence that the "data not dates" mantra is at least to some extent more than empty words although political issues are most definitely a factor as well. I watch and wait with interest to see what gets announced between now and May 17th(*)

- Julian

(*) Technically May 10th I think since as I understand it these 5 week stages are actually 4 weeks to collect and analyse the data and make and announce the decision (delay, don't delay, or tweak the details of the upcoming unlock stage) with the final 5th week of each stage simply being the 7 day notice period that HMG has promised to give for each change in lockdown rules before they come into effect.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 8271
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4434 times
Been thanked: 3564 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403404

Postby servodude » April 11th, 2021, 1:39 pm

Julian wrote:New Zealand and Australia did not have this issue to contend with because they are sufficiently far from all trading partners that no goods are driven into their countries by lorry drivers taking a ferry from China or Japan (for instance), or at least I assume not.


Not internationally but the interstate borders in Aus were variously (very) closed and had to deal with haulage (including the ferry over the Bass straight)
Mostly through lots of permits, isolation strategies and swap overs
So pretty much the same problems and complaints e.g. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/nsw-brings-in-strict-covid-19-testing-for-truckies-20200729-p55glm
- and then news stories about being "that guy who didn't" and took the virus on a road trip; which probably upped compliance a bit more

-sd

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6557 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403421

Postby Lootman » April 11th, 2021, 3:42 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Julian wrote:In the above in a way it's the government taking an "it's better than nothing" approach to this additional mail-order testing on the basis that those that requests the tests are probably going to comply. That seems a reasonable approach to me but if we (the UK/England) really are serious about having decent border protection in place to keep out (as far as possible) new cases, in particular variants of concern, in-person ID-checked testing such as John describes really does seem the only option for those tests.

But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.

I am quite certain that the Government understands the risk. Do you really think that one or two members of the public sitting on the sidelines can see the risk better than a government which has all these advisers around it? Of course they understand the risk but they also understand that one way or another they need to keep commerce ticking over and goods moving.

I agree. I think some observers think that the infection count is the only thing that matters when in reality it is one of several things that matter. Anyone looking at the problem purely in terms of science is going to ignore those other factors, which is why we let scientists advise but let politicians (and ultimately the people) decide.

This also explains why different countries have adopted different solutions to the same problem. If we disregard the policies of the two extremes, say New Zealand on the one hand and Brazil on the other, we are going to come up with a reasonable compromise, which I think the UK will do with its traffic light system, allowing fairly unrestricted travel between green zone countries.

Whilst for orange and red zone countries, in-person testing will not work if millions are travelling. It is probably a luxury we cannot afford and holidaymakers will be unwilling to accept.

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403454

Postby dealtn » April 11th, 2021, 5:52 pm

Mike4 wrote:
But therein lies the problem. They (as in 'our guvvermint') are not serious about border controls and stopping VOCs coming in.

They don't even seem to understand the risk. If they did, the continuous flow of lorry drivers through our ports would be curtailed or stopped. Once again commercial interests are trumping the welfare of the population.

Another unforced error to add to the long list of our government's Greatest Mistakes.


I would imagine they do understand the risk, or at least are considering it alongside other factors. Commercial interests aren't trumping the welfare of the population, as you put it, rather those commercial interests are also a part of the welfare of the population. I doubt the absence of imported food, for instance, would be welfare positive for the population.

I sense you see the risks of potential importation of Covid, and possible VOCs, as the absolute priority, that trumps all other considerations. Others, perhaps the government included, see a more balanced set of priorities and make policy on a holistic basis, not an absolutist Covid determined one.

9873210
Lemon Slice
Posts: 984
Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 295 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403462

Postby 9873210 » April 11th, 2021, 6:22 pm

Lootman wrote:This also explains why different countries have adopted different solutions to the same problem. If we disregard the policies of the two extremes, say New Zealand on the one hand and Brazil on the other, we are going to come up with a reasonable compromise, which I think the UK will do with its traffic light system, allowing fairly unrestricted travel between green zone countries.

New Zealand is the reasonable compromise. The extreme policy on that end is "lockdown everything, forever", which is not what New Zealand has done. New Zealand has had less lockdown and less disruption than other countries.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing with both buttocks.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6557 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403464

Postby Lootman » April 11th, 2021, 6:46 pm

9873210 wrote:
Lootman wrote:This also explains why different countries have adopted different solutions to the same problem. If we disregard the policies of the two extremes, say New Zealand on the one hand and Brazil on the other, we are going to come up with a reasonable compromise, which I think the UK will do with its traffic light system, allowing fairly unrestricted travel between green zone countries.

New Zealand is the reasonable compromise. The extreme policy on that end is "lockdown everything, forever", which is not what New Zealand has done. New Zealand has had less lockdown and less disruption than other countries.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing with both buttocks.

I think it is a highly subjective to regard NZ as not being extreme. For me the overriding factor is that closing all borders is extreme, and that would not be an acceptable solution for me (I have been overseas three times since the beginning of 2020).

Besides NZ had the luxury of being able to do that before the virus reached there, and has a geographical situation that is unique. Neither applies to the UK and most other places. So it is not a viable option in my view.

9873210
Lemon Slice
Posts: 984
Joined: December 9th, 2016, 6:44 am
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 295 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403477

Postby 9873210 » April 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm

Lootman wrote:I agree. I think some observers think that the infection count is the only thing that matters when in reality it is one of several things that matter.


Lootman wrote: For me the overriding factor is that closing all borders is extreme, and that would not be an acceptable solution for me (I have been overseas three times since the beginning of 2020).


So closing borders is not one of several things that matter, but the only thing that matters.

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403485

Postby onthemove » April 11th, 2021, 8:53 pm

9873210 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I agree. I think some observers think that the infection count is the only thing that matters when in reality it is one of several things that matter.


Lootman wrote: For me the overriding factor is that closing all borders is extreme, and that would not be an acceptable solution for me (I have been overseas three times since the beginning of 2020).


So closing borders is not one of several things that matter, but the only thing that matters.


It's ridiculous. Every winter we get hit by various strains of flu. We don't close the borders 'just in case' a new flu variant emerges.

The country has gone stark raving bonkers.

I sincerely hope that Boris is just letting people fret about the borders while they get a couple more months of vaccination under the bridge, and then, bam!, he'll just open up and any thought or suggestion of closing the borders will just evaporate and people will wonder what all the fuss was about.

If the question of closing the borders and / or testing travellers all the time really is a serious consideration beyond a few weeks, and not just something to distract the masses at the moment while they got the bulk of the vaccinations out of the way, then we really have as a nation well and truly lost the plot.

Once the majority of people have built up reasonable tolerance to lessen the severe effects, then what does it matter if the virus is circulating?

Chris Whitty has already said that we ain't gonna get rid of it, and it will become like the flu, meaning every winter the NHS will just have to prepare to deal with a certain number of cases, etc.

I'm not going to bother searching for the link since most people are entrenched in their views anyway, but there was an article on Science Daily several weeks ago reporting research that suggested the most probable evolution of Covid is to become like the common cold. The authors suggested that if the common cold had appeared anew, today, its effects would probably be similar to covid. But because most people catch the cold freely circulating in the population while they are young, this builds up immunity or some degree of tolerance, so that when you become older catching a cold is no longer big deal.

The evidence seems to suggest similar is likely to happen with Covid - already it's clear it's the older people significantly more greatly affected. Younger people seem largely unperturbed.

The evidence seems to suggest that the vaccines are '100%' effective against severe covid and death, and it's expected that even for variants for which their headline efficacy is poor, it is still anticipated that there will be protective effects against severe covid. Effectively giving a means of backfilling 'tolerance' to the virus in the elderly who didn't acquire it while younger for obvious reasons.

And then, it really is then no different to the flu or common cold.

We have some vaccines with our best guesses. We may guess right, we may guess wrong. But they should still provide a degree of tolerance.

But we don't close the borders 'just in case'.

Once the bulk of the ('at risk') population is vaccinated, it won't really matter if cases get imported, just like we don't overly worry about the flu.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18674
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6557 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403488

Postby Lootman » April 11th, 2021, 9:16 pm

onthemove wrote:
9873210 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I agree. I think some observers think that the infection count is the only thing that matters when in reality it is one of several things that matter.

Lootman wrote: For me the overriding factor is that closing all borders is extreme, and that would not be an acceptable solution for me (I have been overseas three times since the beginning of 2020).

So closing borders is not one of several things that matter, but the only thing that matters.

It's ridiculous. Every winter we get hit by various strains of flu. We don't close the borders 'just in case' a new flu variant emerges.

The country has gone stark raving bonkers.

I sincerely hope that Boris is just letting people fret about the borders while they get a couple more months of vaccination under the bridge, and then, bam!, he'll just open up and any thought or suggestion of closing the borders will just evaporate and people will wonder what all the fuss was about.

If the question of closing the borders and / or testing travellers all the time really is a serious consideration beyond a few weeks, and not just something to distract the masses at the moment while they got the bulk of the vaccinations out of the way, then we really have as a nation well and truly lost the plot.

Once the majority of people have built up reasonable tolerance to lessen the severe effects, then what does it matter if the virus is circulating?

Chris Whitty has already said that we ain't gonna get rid of it, and it will become like the flu, meaning every winter the NHS will just have to prepare to deal with a certain number of cases, etc.

I'm not going to bother searching for the link since most people are entrenched in their views anyway, but there was an article on Science Daily several weeks ago reporting research that suggested the most probable evolution of Covid is to become like the common cold. The authors suggested that if the common cold had appeared anew, today, its effects would probably be similar to covid. But because most people catch the cold freely circulating in the population while they are young, this builds up immunity or some degree of tolerance, so that when you become older catching a cold is no longer big deal.

The evidence seems to suggest similar is likely to happen with Covid - already it's clear it's the older people significantly more greatly affected. Younger people seem largely unperturbed.

The evidence seems to suggest that the vaccines are '100%' effective against severe covid and death, and it's expected that even for variants for which their headline efficacy is poor, it is still anticipated that there will be protective effects against severe covid. Effectively giving a means of backfilling 'tolerance' to the virus in the elderly who didn't acquire it while younger for obvious reasons.

And then, it really is then no different to the flu or common cold.

We have some vaccines with our best guesses. We may guess right, we may guess wrong. But they should still provide a degree of tolerance.

But we don't close the borders 'just in case'.

Once the bulk of the ('at risk') population is vaccinated, it won't really matter if cases get imported, just like we don't overly worry about the flu.

Yep, that is it, there is way too much paranoia about. I sense that some people actually enjoy a good panic and will miss this when it is gone, and not just anti-vaxxers whom I disagree with. The gloomsters would happily inconvenience millions of people to save a handful of lives whilst cheerfully accepting more deaths from a variety of other factors. The numbers are way down and so all the doom mob have left is speculation about future events that will almost definitely never happen.

I hope you are right and Boris puts his foot down and says enough is enough.

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 8271
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4434 times
Been thanked: 3564 times

Re: Thoughts on holidays?

#403502

Postby servodude » April 11th, 2021, 11:42 pm

onthemove wrote:It's ridiculous. Every winter we get hit by various strains of flu. We don't close the borders 'just in case' a new flu variant emerges.

The country has gone stark raving bonkers.


Not bonkers surely
- they were just caught out when their planned pandemic response was based around the flu (you know the one they wouldn't bother with if it happened ;) )
- this virus turned out to be quite a bit different in several ways which made the paper work harder and while printing out the correct forms it escaped

- sd


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests