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Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
bungeejumper
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Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400843

Postby bungeejumper » April 1st, 2021, 1:25 pm

Looks like we might have lost two of our closest friends and neighbours, then. :(

One male, one female, both single, both mid sixties (and no, they're not an item, and they prefer it that way.) And we've known them both for 20 years, and we've taken short holiday breaks with them and had many, many boozy barbecues. Thick as thieves, we are. Or rather, we were, until now....

So she came round the other day. "Now that lockdown's lifting we're free to get together again, so I'm planning a party in the garden for next week. Isn't that great?" Errrrm, not exactly, Jane, we thought. For one thing we're sticking strictly to the lockdown rules on this side of the wall, and for another thing you're not. You've got three bubbles on the go, one for each of your kids, which isn't allowed, and you're switching between those bubbles on a daily basis so as to make the most of the twenty-odd people in your bubble world.

And then there's Derek, our other neighbour. Oh, he'll be there at the get-together, obviously. Lovely guy, but a bit lonely, and he does love his beer. Not for the first time, he's just spent several days away at the other end of the country having a prolonged beer-up with all his old mates. Thus driving a coach and horses through the lockdown provisions, and never mind the social distancing either. The very definition of a covid conduit. :|

So no, we told Jane, we're being very careful at the moment, doctor's orders, and we're not really ready yet to loosen up. "Oh," she replied, "but we'll soon have had our second jabs and then it'll all be over anyway. I really don't know what this fuss is all about."

The fuss, Jane, is that the reason the pandemic is easing is that a lot of us are obeying the rules, although you're not. Yes, we totally get it that you're under more personal pressure than us - we've got a great marriage here, and a big enough house to keep us both fully occupied, whereas you'd be down to watching the TV on your own if you didn't bend the rules. That's awful for you, but the virus doesn't ask you about your circumstances when it zaps you.

No, we didn't exactly say that to Jane. Or indeed, anything at all. We just sort of shuffled evasively and let her suppose that we were lousy friends for not coming to her party. She went a bit cool after that.

Actually, we were probably lousy friends for not telling her straight that her rule-breaking might endanger her childrens' lives even though it probably didn't endanger her own since she'd now had the first jab. That would have hurt her feelings horribly, of course, but probably we should have bitten the bullet and got it over with.

What would you have done, Fools? I get this feeling that a lot of us are going to feel the pressure to open up a little bit faster than we feel ready for. And that some of us are going to lose friends along the way. And that there's nothing much we can do to stop that?

BJ

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400844

Postby redsturgeon » April 1st, 2021, 1:29 pm

Yup, I have friends like that and I deal with them pretty much as you did...

John

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400857

Postby AleisterCrowley » April 1st, 2021, 2:16 pm

I want to see my mum, sister and friends again but it's not worth the risk currently. We (mum, sis and I) have all been first jabbed - so I'm heading home mid/late May earliest. My mum (79) should have had second jab by then, and unlikely my sister will be around as she lives in the middle east and travel is a hassle at the moment. I'll still be moderately careful, but mid-May we should be allowed to sit in pubs again :)

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400858

Postby Adamski » April 1st, 2021, 2:18 pm

I'd say in their defence the risks of catching Covid outside are very very low, so a garden party is a relatively safe activity, compared to say an indoor meetup. Outside you can stick to social distancing easier and your breath gets caught up in the breeze, so someone is less likely to breathe in Covid. I'm kind of in both camps as can see people I know being covidiots doing stupid stuff, but others have the risks I think out of perspective as we also need to have return to normality. I have a relative jumping into traffic to avoid people and treating close relatives like lepers even when both she and they have had the jab. I think sometimes we need to chill a bit and see the bigger picture.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400862

Postby Steveam » April 1st, 2021, 2:56 pm

I’ve been and continue to be very strict and see some of my friends regularly breaking the rules. I don’t criticise them but make my views clear - it’s definitely damaged some friendships and I regret the damage.

The damage goes both ways. Some of my friends think I’m critical of them or overly precious. I feel some of them are not the people I thought: socially irresponsible and selfish. I don’t wish to lose friends over this but the damage on both sides is done.

I am very conscious of none of us being perfect and motes and planks.

Best wishes,

Steve

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400864

Postby JohnB » April 1st, 2021, 3:05 pm

My friends don't seem to be breaking rules, but then I've not seen a single one of them outside Zoom for 12 months. Neighbours do, but that's one reason they are not my friends.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400865

Postby AleisterCrowley » April 1st, 2021, 3:12 pm

It's all terribly depressing, isn't it? I'll be glad when some sort of normality returns.
Anyway, nice and sunny down here today so I'm going to have a walk round the garden (rectangle of grass about 20ft x 8ft..)

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400875

Postby Dod101 » April 1st, 2021, 3:38 pm

I must say my elderly friends are as far as I can see pretty much obeying the rules as is my 54 year old daughter and her family I am pleased to say. Whether we like it or not it is not up to us to decide what to do. It would be fun though to call the local constabulary and tell them about Jane's knees up once it is in full swing.

What I would say to Jane is pretty much what BG seems not quite to have. '' Look, think what you like of us, but these rules are there for a reason and anyway we would be breaking the law if we came along. Hopefully there will be opportunity over the summer to get together but we will not be coming to your do at the moment''.

If that caused her to go off in a huff well it is her loss but she should understand. Avoid criticising her and her friends directly even although you thoroughly disapprove.

Dod

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400892

Postby tjh290633 » April 1st, 2021, 4:15 pm

So the rules say that Jane can meet up to 5 friends in her garden if she wishes. The two households rule clearly does not apply.

Is Jane planning to have more than 6 there? If not, what is the objection and what business is it of others to criticise her actions?

I would say it is none of their business. If you are invited and don't wish to go, then say so, but that is down to your hangups, not her wishes.

TJH

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400895

Postby Lootman » April 1st, 2021, 4:23 pm

tjh290633 wrote:So the rules say that Jane can meet up to 5 friends in her garden if she wishes. The two households rule clearly does not apply.

Is Jane planning to have more than 6 there? If not, what is the objection and what business is it of others to criticise her actions?

I would say it is none of their business. If you are invited and don't wish to go, then say so, but that is down to your hangups, not her wishes.

Yeah, I do not take it personally if other people break the lockdown rules either, and I know plenty of people (usually younger but not always) who routinely do that. As you say, ultimately it is none of my business.

And I would not end friendships over this topic, although I also would not end a friendship over politics, religion, Brexit or anything else like that. I regard such views as being outside of my relationship with other people.

That said, Covid has provided a useful excuse for getting out of social invitations that I do not really want to attend anyway. It is a get out of jail free card. But if there were an outdoor event that I wanted to attend, then I would not worry too much about any real risk, not least because I have been vaccinated.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400899

Postby DrFfybes » April 1st, 2021, 4:45 pm

It is a difficult call. I haven't lost anyone close, but if i had I suspect I'd be a lot less lax about rule breakers than I have.

MrsF's sister got together with her 'wrinklies' Bridge Club last year, against the rules at the time, "but we're all careful and we've known each other for years". Several got infected, 2 died, one still suffering I gather. Despite this she still had her family around (including eldest daughter currently going through chemo) over Xmas and New Year.

I told her what I thought about this, so I'm not expecting a birthday card this year.

Paul

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400939

Postby 9873210 » April 1st, 2021, 8:12 pm

Addressing the etiquette not Covid.

According to Miss Manners you do not have to give a reason to decline an invitation.
If you decline without comment they should assume you had a prior engagement.
Faced saved all around, if both sides want to continue later.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400943

Postby Mike4 » April 1st, 2021, 8:36 pm

9873210 wrote:Addressing the etiquette not Covid.

According to Miss Manners you do not have to give a reason to decline an invitation.
If you decline without comment they should assume you had a prior engagement.
Faced saved all around, if both sides want to continue later.


I very much agree. just politely saying thank you for the invitation but unfortunately I am unable to attend (especially if you can do it in writing) gives them nothing to work with. Once one starts offering reasons they sound like excuses, and an invitation to argue and/or demolish the excuse.

But getting back to covid attitudes, most people if not everyone are completely entrenched in their views and trying to convince them that basically they are wrong, is even less welcome than telling them their first-born child is stupid and ugly. Virtually no-one ever shifts their attitude one scintilla, you only have to look on here to see that so what's the point in bothering.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400945

Postby Lootman » April 1st, 2021, 8:50 pm

Mike4 wrote: just politely saying thank you for the invitation but unfortunately I am unable to attend (especially if you can do it in writing) gives them nothing to work with. Once one starts offering reasons they sound like excuses, and an invitation to argue and/or demolish the excuse.

I agree although it has become harder to imply that you have other plans for the night when in fact there is nowhere for anyone to go right now!

Mike4 wrote:But getting back to covid attitudes, most people if not everyone are completely entrenched in their views and trying to convince them that basically they are wrong, is even less welcome than telling them their first-born child is stupid and ugly. Virtually no-one ever shifts their attitude one scintilla, you only have to look on here to see that so what's the point in bothering.

Yes, I have thought for a while now that the dispersion of views on Covid, and the intensity with which some hold them, means that Covid has replaced Brexit for those who crave a new hill to die on.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400950

Postby CryptoPlankton » April 1st, 2021, 9:27 pm

Lootman wrote:Yes, I have thought for a while now that the dispersion of views on Covid, and the intensity with which some hold them, means that Covid has replaced Brexit for those who crave a new hill to die on.

Personally, I've found them both to be very uncomfortable fences that have given me unpleasantly sore buttocks... :o :)

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400960

Postby XFool » April 1st, 2021, 11:02 pm

Lootman wrote:
Mike4 wrote:But getting back to covid attitudes, most people if not everyone are completely entrenched in their views and trying to convince them that basically they are wrong, is even less welcome than telling them their first-born child is stupid and ugly. Virtually no-one ever shifts their attitude one scintilla, you only have to look on here to see that so what's the point in bothering.

Yes, I have thought for a while now that the dispersion of views on Covid, and the intensity with which some hold them, means that Covid has replaced Brexit for those who crave a new hill to die on.

On not. As the case may be. ;)

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400965

Postby Lootman » April 1st, 2021, 11:24 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Mike4 wrote:But getting back to covid attitudes, most people if not everyone are completely entrenched in their views and trying to convince them that basically they are wrong, is even less welcome than telling them their first-born child is stupid and ugly. Virtually no-one ever shifts their attitude one scintilla, you only have to look on here to see that so what's the point in bothering.

Yes, I have thought for a while now that the dispersion of views on Covid, and the intensity with which some hold them, means that Covid has replaced Brexit for those who crave a new hill to die on.

On not. As the case may be. ;)

I certainly notice it here. Whether it is true more broadly can be debated. But people do seem to like to have a cause to hang their hat on and get religion about, whether it be Leave versus Remain, Lockdown versus freedom, or any other duopoly you might care to conjure up.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400966

Postby XFool » April 1st, 2021, 11:32 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:Yes, I have thought for a while now that the dispersion of views on Covid, and the intensity with which some hold them, means that Covid has replaced Brexit for those who crave a new hill to die on.

On not. As the case may be. ;)

I certainly notice it here. Whether it is true more broadly can be debated. But people do seem to like to have a cause to hang their hat on and get religion about, whether it be Leave versus Remain, Lockdown versus freedom, or any other duopoly you might care to conjure up.

Me? I prefer the science to the politics. But then there are those who choose to impose politics on reality: e.g. Global warming is "just" politics etc. But that is called denialism. At least, that is what I call it. ;)

We have seen quite a bit of that during this pandemic. (At least, I have seen it!)

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400969

Postby Lootman » April 1st, 2021, 11:38 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:On not. As the case may be. ;)

I certainly notice it here. Whether it is true more broadly can be debated. But people do seem to like to have a cause to hang their hat on and get religion about, whether it be Leave versus Remain, Lockdown versus freedom, or any other duopoly you might care to conjure up.

Me? I prefer the science to the politics.

Except that everyone says that so it really doesn't help determine whether you are right or not. That said, science only defines the problem, not the solution. I would not want to live in an oligarchy run by scientists and I suspect that you would not either.

Anyway you are rather proving my point here, although I am not sure you realise that.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400975

Postby XFool » April 1st, 2021, 11:49 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:I certainly notice it here. Whether it is true more broadly can be debated. But people do seem to like to have a cause to hang their hat on and get religion about, whether it be Leave versus Remain, Lockdown versus freedom, or any other duopoly you might care to conjure up.

Me? I prefer the science to the politics.

Except that everyone says that so it really doesn't help determine whether you are right or not.

Nonsense! It is entirely clear (it is to me) that some out there had other priorities, often led by their political ideology. (And that is before we come to the crackpots)

Lootman wrote:That said, science only defines the problem, not the solution.

More nonsense? Defining the problem is the first step in finding a way to the solution(s).

Lootman wrote:I would not want to live in an oligarchy run by scientists and I suspect that you would not either.

Strawman. Nobody is asking you to.

Lootman wrote:Anyway you are rather proving my point here, although I am not sure you realise that.

I realise you are certain about that. ;)


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