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Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Lootman
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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400977

Postby Lootman » April 1st, 2021, 11:54 pm

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyway you are rather proving my point here, although I am not sure you realise that.

I realise you are certain about that.

So your certainty is an indicator of truth and mine is an indicator of falsehood? How utterly convenient.

Again, you are proving my point that Covid is as big a trigger for one-sided thinking as Brexit was. What do you think the next trigger topic will be to divide the nation pointlessly?

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400980

Postby XFool » April 2nd, 2021, 12:06 am

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyway you are rather proving my point here, although I am not sure you realise that.

I realise you are certain about that.

So your certainty is an indicator of truth and mine is an indicator of falsehood? How utterly convenient.

Does that work the other way around? Or not? :)

Lootman wrote:Again, you are proving my point that Covid is as big a trigger for one-sided thinking as Brexit was.

Again I disagree! Where is the evidence that COVID was a ~50:50 political split with the British public, or even within mainstream political parties? With the political fringes, anti-establishment nutters and conspiracy theorists it was (and remains), of course, a very different matter.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400984

Postby Lootman » April 2nd, 2021, 12:11 am

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:I realise you are certain about that.

So your certainty is an indicator of truth and mine is an indicator of falsehood? How utterly convenient.

Does that work the other way around? Or not? :)

I never claimed to be right 100% of the time. I always entertain the possibility that I am wrong. I am just waiting for you to demonstrate that I am wrong in this case.
Last edited by Lootman on April 2nd, 2021, 12:25 am, edited 3 times in total.

servodude
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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#400986

Postby servodude » April 2nd, 2021, 12:22 am

Just tell them "no thanks, I'm avoiding aerosols"
- do it with a French accent

;)
-sd

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401013

Postby 88V8 » April 2nd, 2021, 9:18 am

bungeejumper wrote:I get this feeling that a lot of us are going to feel the pressure to open up a little bit faster than we feel ready for. And that some of us are going to lose friends along the way. And that there's nothing much we can do to stop that?

Friends... of varying degrees...are never perfect.

They drop litter... have right/left-wing opinions... like the wrong music.... the wrong food... have views on race/gender... selfish, thoughtless .... forget your birthday.... don't pay their share.... one way and another are never perfect.

Given time to think about particular transgressions and your tolerance thereof, one might choose to respond diplomatically, gloss over. But sometimes behaviour can show that friends are really not the people you thought they were.
Few friendships are for ever.

V8

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401035

Postby stevensfo » April 2nd, 2021, 10:12 am

Adamski wrote:I'd say in their defence the risks of catching Covid outside are very very low, so a garden party is a relatively safe activity, compared to say an indoor meetup. Outside you can stick to social distancing easier and your breath gets caught up in the breeze, so someone is less likely to breathe in Covid. I'm kind of in both camps as can see people I know being covidiots doing stupid stuff, but others have the risks I think out of perspective as we also need to have return to normality. I have a relative jumping into traffic to avoid people and treating close relatives like lepers even when both she and they have had the jab. I think sometimes we need to chill a bit and see the bigger picture.


Yes, catching Covid outside is not easy, but we're not talking about a walk along a windy beach. This is a group of people in a garden, handing round drinks, plates, knives, forks, moving chairs, picking up things that other people have just touched. The hands are like 5-star hotels for viruses and if there are kids with sticky hands involved, you can bet that any virus will end up on everyone. Just because someone's had the vaccination doesn't mean they can't help to transmit the virus to others.

Vaccine or not, having a party is just irresponsible. I can't believe that after all this time, people still haven't grasped how these things work.

Steve

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401040

Postby MrFoolish » April 2nd, 2021, 10:45 am

stevensfo wrote:
Adamski wrote:I'd say in their defence the risks of catching Covid outside are very very low, so a garden party is a relatively safe activity, compared to say an indoor meetup. Outside you can stick to social distancing easier and your breath gets caught up in the breeze, so someone is less likely to breathe in Covid. I'm kind of in both camps as can see people I know being covidiots doing stupid stuff, but others have the risks I think out of perspective as we also need to have return to normality. I have a relative jumping into traffic to avoid people and treating close relatives like lepers even when both she and they have had the jab. I think sometimes we need to chill a bit and see the bigger picture.


Yes, catching Covid outside is not easy, but we're not talking about a walk along a windy beach. This is a group of people in a garden, handing round drinks, plates, knives, forks, moving chairs, picking up things that other people have just touched. The hands are like 5-star hotels for viruses and if there are kids with sticky hands involved, you can bet that any virus will end up on everyone. Just because someone's had the vaccination doesn't mean they can't help to transmit the virus to others.

Vaccine or not, having a party is just irresponsible. I can't believe that after all this time, people still haven't grasped how these things work.

Steve


The last I heard, the virus is largely spread by aerosol droplets rather than infected objects.

Also, you mention kids. Surely there must be much greater spread via kids in classrooms than in garden BBQs.

Just trying for a bit of perspective.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401041

Postby DrFfybes » April 2nd, 2021, 10:48 am

DrFfybes wrote:It is a difficult call. I haven't lost anyone close, but if i had I suspect I'd be a lot less lax about rule breakers than I have.

MrsF's sister got together with her 'wrinklies' Bridge Club last year, against the rules at the time, "but we're all careful and we've known each other for years". Several got infected, 2 died, one still suffering I gather. Despite this she still had her family around (including eldest daughter currently going through chemo) over Xmas and New Year.

[..see below..]

I told her what I thought about this, so I'm not expecting a birthday card this year.

Paul


Just realised a paragraph had gone missing from this, as follows..

"At the start of the Pandemic S-i-L suggested "we should have nuked the f**** Chinese while we had the chance" as Covid was impacting her daughter's chemo. I thought it a little unreasonable that she should consider Genocide as reasonable to preserve her daughter's chances, but she wouldn't forego a family gathering."

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401042

Postby Steveam » April 2nd, 2021, 10:52 am

I heard yesterday that 8 bridge acquaintances (some of whom are friends) got together on Wednesday evening to play. The one who (somewhat sheepishly) told me that they kept the windows and patio doors open. He said I wasn’t invited as they all know my views.

How do I feel? I’m jealous of missing out on a pleasant social evening. I’m pleased I wasn’t invited and tempted. I’m disappointed at people putting their own pleasure above the welfare of society. I remind myself that none of us are perfect or without sin.

My relationship with some of the people concerned is damaged. I’ve lost some degree of respect and some of the people are not who I thought they were. Although my initial feeling was one of anger it’s now become one of sadness.

Best wishes,

Steve

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401048

Postby MrFoolish » April 2nd, 2021, 11:04 am

Steveam wrote:I heard yesterday that 8 bridge acquaintances (some of whom are friends) got together on Wednesday evening to play. The one who (somewhat sheepishly) told me that they kept the windows and patio doors open. He said I wasn’t invited as they all know my views.

How do I feel? I’m jealous of missing out on a pleasant social evening. I’m pleased I wasn’t invited and tempted. I’m disappointed at people putting their own pleasure above the welfare of society. I remind myself that none of us are perfect or without sin.

My relationship with some of the people concerned is damaged. I’ve lost some degree of respect and some of the people are not who I thought they were. Although my initial feeling was one of anger it’s now become one of sadness.

Best wishes,

Steve


How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401052

Postby Mike4 » April 2nd, 2021, 11:12 am

MrFoolish wrote:
Steveam wrote:I heard yesterday that 8 bridge acquaintances (some of whom are friends) got together on Wednesday evening to play. The one who (somewhat sheepishly) told me that they kept the windows and patio doors open. He said I wasn’t invited as they all know my views.

How do I feel? I’m jealous of missing out on a pleasant social evening. I’m pleased I wasn’t invited and tempted. I’m disappointed at people putting their own pleasure above the welfare of society. I remind myself that none of us are perfect or without sin.

My relationship with some of the people concerned is damaged. I’ve lost some degree of respect and some of the people are not who I thought they were. Although my initial feeling was one of anger it’s now become one of sadness.

Best wishes,

Steve


How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


One car accident on a motorway doesn't lead to two more, then four, then eight....

I can't believe after all the discussion on here of this, there are still posters who don't understand the risk.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401055

Postby Steveam » April 2nd, 2021, 11:15 am

Interesting that you mention the speeding issue. It was in my mind when I wrote about none of us being perfect or without sin. I don’t drive now but when I did I know that I sometimes went over the limit and sometimes used a mobile phone and sometimes drove when I’d drunk too much (many, many years ago). Over the years I’ve become more law abiding and more conscious of the risks to others of my actions. I’d like to think I’ve become less self centred.

I’m sure the parable of the mote in applies. I dislike self righteousness.

Best wishes,

Steve

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401057

Postby MrFoolish » April 2nd, 2021, 11:17 am

Mike4 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:
Steveam wrote:I heard yesterday that 8 bridge acquaintances (some of whom are friends) got together on Wednesday evening to play. The one who (somewhat sheepishly) told me that they kept the windows and patio doors open. He said I wasn’t invited as they all know my views.

How do I feel? I’m jealous of missing out on a pleasant social evening. I’m pleased I wasn’t invited and tempted. I’m disappointed at people putting their own pleasure above the welfare of society. I remind myself that none of us are perfect or without sin.

My relationship with some of the people concerned is damaged. I’ve lost some degree of respect and some of the people are not who I thought they were. Although my initial feeling was one of anger it’s now become one of sadness.

Best wishes,

Steve


How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


One car accident on a motorway doesn't lead to two more, then four, then eight....

I can't believe after all the discussion on here of this, there are still posters who don't understand the risk.


Given that the R-rate is below is below 1 and that the members of that bridge club have probably been vaccinated, what chance do you put on it leading to the sort of exponential outbreak you describe? The situation is not where we were in January.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401058

Postby Arborbridge » April 2nd, 2021, 11:20 am

MrFoolish wrote:How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


This is an erroneous comparison and I am sure that you must know it.

If driving at 75mph caused a exponential increase in accidents over time, hospital beds being blocked, other NHS services being axed, then maybe you would have a point. But it doesn't.

Arb.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401060

Postby Mike4 » April 2nd, 2021, 11:20 am

MrFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:
How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


One car accident on a motorway doesn't lead to two more, then four, then eight....

I can't believe after all the discussion on here of this, there are still posters who don't understand the risk.


Given that the R-rate is below is below 1 and that the members of that bridge club have probably been vaccinated, what chance do you put on it leading to the sort of exponential outbreak you describe? The situation is not where we were in January.


I don't know, but the chances are greater than if they didn't have the bridge meeting.

I'll ask you a question in return. How come the R-rate (as you put it) is below unity?

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401062

Postby Arborbridge » April 2nd, 2021, 11:23 am

MrFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:
How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


One car accident on a motorway doesn't lead to two more, then four, then eight....

I can't believe after all the discussion on here of this, there are still posters who don't understand the risk.


Given that the R-rate is below is below 1 and that the members of that bridge club have probably been vaccinated, what chance do you put on it leading to the sort of exponential outbreak you describe? The situation is not where we were in January.


This is just changing the goal posts.

As a coincidental aside, a friend of mine lives in a part of a town which has had a sudden increase in infections this past week or so. I asked him about it, and apparently it is a very "posh" area, no overcrowding and no obvious reason why it should be worse there.....
.... except that it's the home of a very keen bridge playing club :lol:

Arb.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401065

Postby Arborbridge » April 2nd, 2021, 11:27 am

Mike4 wrote:
I'll ask you a question in return. How come the R-rate (as you put it) is below unity?


Please sir, I can answer that.
It's because the vast majority of people obeyed the lockdown rules. If we had all carried on playing bridge, we would be running out of bridge partners before long. Then, and only then, would the infections decline.

I'd much rather live in a society where people played by the rules.

Arb.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401066

Postby MrFoolish » April 2nd, 2021, 11:29 am

Mike4 wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
One car accident on a motorway doesn't lead to two more, then four, then eight....

I can't believe after all the discussion on here of this, there are still posters who don't understand the risk.


Given that the R-rate is below is below 1 and that the members of that bridge club have probably been vaccinated, what chance do you put on it leading to the sort of exponential outbreak you describe? The situation is not where we were in January.


I don't know, but the chances are greater than if they didn't have the bridge meeting.

I'll ask you a question in return. How come the R-rate (as you put it) is below unity?


I should clarify that I don't really approve of the bridge club meeting. But largely because the rules have to apply to all (to keep them simple) and people who haven't been vaccinated need to be careful. I don't feel that bridge club is adding much overall risk, though they should really be patient a bit longer and show solidarity with younger people.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401077

Postby dealtn » April 2nd, 2021, 11:46 am

Arborbridge wrote:
MrFoolish wrote:How do you feel about people who drive at 75mph on the motorway? This is also breaking the law and comes with a small increased risk of fatalities.


This is an erroneous comparison and I am sure that you must know it.

If driving at 75mph caused a exponential increase in accidents over time, hospital beds being blocked, other NHS services being axed, then maybe you would have a point. But it doesn't.

Arb.


Neither does a virus with an R rate slightly either side of 1 have the kind of exponential "doubling" path as described either.

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Re: Friends who 'don't do' the lockdown

#401082

Postby JohnB » April 2nd, 2021, 11:54 am

As I watch the preparations for a big party 6 doors down, they have a cascade of balloons out of the upstairs window FFS, and see the cars of the early arrivals parked across the pavement forcing people into the road, I'm very conscious that their stupidity is extending the already 12 month gap when I've seen *none* of my friends. Its like when I was litter-picking in the nature reserve yesterday, I can only do so much before my faith in humanity is exhausted.


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