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NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
stevensfo
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NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407648

Postby stevensfo » April 28th, 2021, 12:52 pm

I've had a Patient Access login for years and don't find it terribly useful, as well as having some bugs. e.g. A repeat prescription mysteriously disappeared, and although supposedly linked to our local surgery, most items in the menu seem to lead nowhere.

I've been recommended the NHS App and am wondering what the difference is? A recent report hinted that the app may be used as proof of vaccination for travel abroad, though I wonder how readily it will be accepted the other side. Having just travelled between Italy and the UK, I've seen at first hand how confusing the situation is for those wanting to travel.

Anyone downloaded the app? Is it useful? Any bugs?


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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407669

Postby AF62 » April 28th, 2021, 1:46 pm

stevensfo wrote:Anyone downloaded the app? Is it useful? Any bugs?


I have used the NHS app for several years. I haven't used EMIS Patient Access as my GP surgery used the other system, TPP SystmOnline. I swapped because at the time the TPP SystmOnline access was only through a web browser and was very poor to access via a phone - what is it with web developers who don't provide a mobile browser version of their website!

Regarding the NHS app.

There seems to be a decent level of security to getting it set up, although I suspect some might say - "that's a lot of faff". When I set my access up, not only did you need to enter your personal details but you had to take a photo of a driving licence or passport and upload it, then take a video of yourself saying specific prompted numbers, and then someone in the background compared the video to the photo ID to make sure it was you before granting access.

Access to the app on my iPhone is via a passcode or if you wish biometric access (fingerprint or facial id) - biometric access is my preferred option for ease.

What can it do - Order prescriptions, see the status of ordered prescriptions, change the pharmacy where they are sent, book GP appointments, see past GP appointments, see your health record, see hospital referrals, manage organ donation records.

You can (if you and the other person agrees) set up linked accounts so you can do most of the above for the other person.

Is it useful - yes, I can access my health records and do what I need to do from my phone, and all in a proper app with some (to me) reasonable security.

Any bugs - occasionally it will say your data isn't accessible, but that is as likely due to the poor mobile phone coverage where I am trying to use it.

I still have access to the TPP SystmOnline and on occasion when I have checked, there is no difference to the information there and on the NHS app.

So does the NHS app provide a compelling reason to use it against EMIS Patient Access; probably not if you are happy using that, unless... the mythical COVID passports suddenly appear in it and you need to travel / get access to somewhere which requires such.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407681

Postby mc2fool » April 28th, 2021, 2:09 pm

stevensfo wrote:I've had a Patient Access login for years and don't find it terribly useful, as well as having some bugs. e.g. A repeat prescription mysteriously disappeared, and although supposedly linked to our local surgery, most items in the menu seem to lead nowhere.

I've been recommended the NHS App and am wondering what the difference is?

I too have been using Patient Access for years, and I haven't had any problems with it and pretty much everything is there. I suspect that what's available is up to the practice and it's not clear that using another mechanism, like the NHS app, will make any difference as to what is available to you.

Nevertheless, I thought of trying out the NHS app and came across a problem that seems to have my practice stumped. To have the NHS app link to my practice it needs an ODS Code, an Account ID, and a Linkage Key (aka a passphrase), and the Linkage Key that my practice supplies -- and, curiously, that Patient Access has -- doesn't work for the NHS app (or, indeed, any other services). In fact, it seems to be of quite the wrong format.

So, as a matter of curiosity, if you log in to Patient Access, click on your name at the top right and click on Account and then, at the bottom right, click on My Practice, does your Account Linkage Key look something like "a1Cd E23H iJKLm" or is it just a number?

BTW, the NHS app also has an online interface that you access on your browser from a PC. Start here: https://www.nhsapp.service.nhs.uk/login.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407682

Postby stevensfo » April 28th, 2021, 2:10 pm

Wow, thanks a lot!

The security procedure sounds similar to when I set up my Monzo bank account, so no problem. I had to photograph my driving licence or passport and film myself speaking a few words.

I'm a bit wary of having everything on a phone, so I hope they will offer paper certificates that are recognised internationally. These have to include a recognised health provider, details of vaccine with info, Lot number etc (as in the current cards) contact details inc. phone number, name of doctor and signature.

This summer is going to be fun! :lol:


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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407686

Postby Lootman » April 28th, 2021, 2:20 pm

stevensfo wrote:I'm a bit wary of having everything on a phone, so I hope they will offer paper certificates that are recognised internationally.

Yes, surely that is the over-riding factor, i.e. phones cannot be relied on to work everywhere, all the time. And indeed a good number of people do not have or use smart phones at all.

So there will always have to be a paper alternative. Various countries have indicated that they will accept the vaccination cards that we are all given, and that is all I intend to use for the foreseeable future.

I have never used the NHS app and see no reason to, particularly since much of my care is derived from non-NHS providers.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407689

Postby XFool » April 28th, 2021, 2:31 pm

mc2fool wrote:So, as a matter of curiosity, if you log in to Patient Access, click on your name at the top right and click on Account and then, at the bottom right, click on My Practice, does your Account Linkage Key look something like "a1Cd E23H iJKLm" or is it just a number?

Yes. Mine looks like that example.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407698

Postby stevensfo » April 28th, 2021, 2:50 pm

Lootman wrote:
stevensfo wrote:I'm a bit wary of having everything on a phone, so I hope they will offer paper certificates that are recognised internationally.

Yes, surely that is the over-riding factor, i.e. phones cannot be relied on to work everywhere, all the time. And indeed a good number of people do not have or use smart phones at all.

So there will always have to be a paper alternative. Various countries have indicated that they will accept the vaccination cards that we are all given, and that is all I intend to use for the foreseeable future.

I have never used the NHS app and see no reason to, particularly since much of my care is derived from non-NHS providers.


I'm always amazed when people show their phones at Check-in or at the Departure Gates. I always keep the printed document with me. I've seen too many queues held up due to people desperately trying to find the correct document on their phones.

During the Covid crisis, it's also a good idea to go to the check-in desk first, even if you only have hand luggage. You learn all the latest updates to the rules. This saved me at Luton recently! Italy changed the 72 hour rule to 48 hours. There is a fast test centre just out of the door. Lots of sobbing people at the departure gate!!

I'd be interested to know which countries would accept the current NHS cards. They are for internal use only, with almost no info, so I don't see how they would be acceptable. So easy to forge. Even our tennis club cards were more elaborate, and I easily forged those!

Steve

PS The tennis club card forging was for ease of booking a court. No financial gain or fraudulent reasons. Both cards had to be put in the slots. It just meant that one of us could go and book, instead of both.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407703

Postby chas49 » April 28th, 2021, 2:55 pm

stevensfo wrote:I'd be interested to know which countries would accept the current NHS cards. They are for internal use only, with almost no info, so I don't see how they would be acceptable. So easy to forge. Even our tennis club cards were more elaborate, and I easily forged those!


I doubt any country (even the UK) would actually accept the card as evidence of COVID status. If there is to be a 'passport', then either there will have to be an agreed international format, or travellers will have to research what evidence is required in each country and make sure they have it (possibly in the right language!). So a screenshot of your GP record probably wouldn't work either.

I'm glad I don't have any plans to travel in the near futire.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407708

Postby JohnB » April 28th, 2021, 3:06 pm

Interesting that you need a passport or DL to use the NHS app to handle prescriptions. That would prevent my housebound mother, 91 and on a dozen medications, from using the service. I suspect many seriously ill people do not have those documents.

Needing a passport to get a covid passport make sense, but otherwise we need to push back against these discriminatory and over elaborate identity schemes.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407712

Postby mc2fool » April 28th, 2021, 3:27 pm

JohnB wrote:Interesting that you need a passport or DL to use the NHS app to handle prescriptions. That would prevent my housebound mother, 91 and on a dozen medications, from using the service. I suspect many seriously ill people do not have those documents.

You don't need those, you can use the registration details from your practice.

"You can prove who you are using photo I.D. or your registration details for your GP surgery’s online services."
https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/online-services/nhs-app/nhs-app-help-and-support/prove-who-you-are-to-get-full-access/

"If you are registered for your GP surgery’s online services, you will have been given 3 registration details. ... You can use these 3 registration details to prove who you are instead of using photo I.D."
https://help.login.nhs.uk/provewhoyouare/withoutid/

Note, you don't have to have actually signed up to your GP surgery's online services, just been given the registration details so you can.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407731

Postby stevensfo » April 28th, 2021, 4:24 pm

JohnB wrote:Interesting that you need a passport or DL to use the NHS app to handle prescriptions. That would prevent my housebound mother, 91 and on a dozen medications, from using the service. I suspect many seriously ill people do not have those documents.

Needing a passport to get a covid passport make sense, but otherwise we need to push back against these discriminatory and over elaborate identity schemes.


Have you tried to open a bank account recently?

Despite most banks being in the news for their own money laundering and illegal activities, they will still insist on you going through various processes that show that you, 'Mr Innocent' are not implicated in the various schemes of which HMRC are fully aware.

The ID checks works both ways.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407760

Postby AF62 » April 28th, 2021, 5:55 pm

stevensfo wrote:I'm always amazed when people show their phones at Check-in or at the Departure Gates. I always keep the printed document with me. I've seen too many queues held up due to people desperately trying to find the correct document on their phones.


Most likely people who don't know how their phones work!

If you are using an Apple phone then airline apps will generally allow you to save a copy of the boarding pass to Apple wallet, and if you made the booking, then a copy of the boarding passes for everyone on that booking. Apple wallet doesn't need any connectivity to work and can be found with a simple 'swipe up' from the bottom of the screen - and voila, a display of all your boarding cards, loyalty cards, credit cards for you to choose what you want to use.

It must have been years since I actually bothered to print out the paperwork.

stevensfo wrote:I'd be interested to know which countries would accept the current NHS cards. They are for internal use only, with almost no info, so I don't see how they would be acceptable. So easy to forge.


Greece has said that it will accept them, whilst Portugal has said effectively - 'you are having a laugh, you might as well scribble "I am fine" on the back of paper napkin and show that at border controls' :lol:

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407762

Postby AF62 » April 28th, 2021, 5:58 pm

mc2fool wrote:
JohnB wrote:Interesting that you need a passport or DL to use the NHS app to handle prescriptions. That would prevent my housebound mother, 91 and on a dozen medications, from using the service. I suspect many seriously ill people do not have those documents.

You don't need those, you can use the registration details from your practice.

"You can prove who you are using photo I.D. or your registration details for your GP surgery’s online services."
https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/online-services/nhs-app/nhs-app-help-and-support/prove-who-you-are-to-get-full-access/

"If you are registered for your GP surgery’s online services, you will have been given 3 registration details. ... You can use these 3 registration details to prove who you are instead of using photo I.D."
https://help.login.nhs.uk/provewhoyouare/withoutid/

Note, you don't have to have actually signed up to your GP surgery's online services, just been given the registration details so you can.


I tried getting the registration details from my GP's surgery when I first wanted to use the NHS app - they didn't have a clue what I was asking for, hence me going the photo ID route. Hopefully the training of reception staff has improved in the last few years.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407924

Postby absolutezero » April 29th, 2021, 9:45 am

My understanding is the NHS app takes data from your GP's computer systems.
Most now use the EMIS Patient Access system and so the NHS app just scrapes from EMIS what your GP will allow it to see.
I had to ring my GP to get them to switch bits of it on. E.g. Couldn't see my medical history (which was the point in my having the app in the first place!)

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#407974

Postby ouzo » April 29th, 2021, 11:32 am

I've just signed up for the NHS app. I'd tried before but don't have photo ID and didn't know where to look for the three numbers asked for - I've now found these hidden away in Patient Access (thanks to mc2fool).

The main difference I can see is that Patient Access gives the next reorder dates for medication, the NHS app doesn't (computer says no if you reorder too early).

Ann

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#408016

Postby murraypaul » April 29th, 2021, 1:04 pm

chas49 wrote:I doubt any country (even the UK) would actually accept the card as evidence of COVID status. If there is to be a 'passport', then either there will have to be an agreed international format, or travellers will have to research what evidence is required in each country and make sure they have it (possibly in the right language!). So a screenshot of your GP record probably wouldn't work either.


There is already an internationally agreed 'vaccine passport', the yellow book for Yellow Fever. (International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis)
(Yellow Fever is in theory the only disease (currently) that countries are allowed to refuse you entry on medical grounds if you are not vaccinated against it.)
I happen to have one, so asked for the covid vaccine details to be entered there as well. No idea if it will do any good, but no harm in asking.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#408017

Postby Lootman » April 29th, 2021, 1:04 pm

AF62 wrote:
stevensfo wrote:I'm always amazed when people show their phones at Check-in or at the Departure Gates. I always keep the printed document with me. I've seen too many queues held up due to people desperately trying to find the correct document on their phones.

Most likely people who don't know how their phones work!

If you are using an Apple phone then airline apps will generally allow you to save a copy of the boarding pass to Apple wallet, and if you made the booking, then a copy of the boarding passes for everyone on that booking. Apple wallet doesn't need any connectivity to work and can be found with a simple 'swipe up' from the bottom of the screen - and voila, a display of all your boarding cards, loyalty cards, credit cards for you to choose what you want to use.

It must have been years since I actually bothered to print out the paperwork.

There are other things that can go wrong with a phone even if no signal is needed. It can run out of charge. It can freeze. It can malfunction.

So why would anyone not print off the documents just in case? And then photograph the document on your phone as well?

There is also the possibility that some countries may insist on seeing original paper documents.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#408055

Postby stevensfo » April 29th, 2021, 1:52 pm

murraypaul wrote:
chas49 wrote:I doubt any country (even the UK) would actually accept the card as evidence of COVID status. If there is to be a 'passport', then either there will have to be an agreed international format, or travellers will have to research what evidence is required in each country and make sure they have it (possibly in the right language!). So a screenshot of your GP record probably wouldn't work either.


There is already an internationally agreed 'vaccine passport', the yellow book for Yellow Fever. (International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis)
(Yellow Fever is in theory the only disease (currently) that countries are allowed to refuse you entry on medical grounds if you are not vaccinated against it.)
I happen to have one, so asked for the covid vaccine details to be entered there as well. No idea if it will do any good, but no harm in asking.


That may be the best solution. I have exactly the same yellow card from Italy, and each vaccination has two stamps, a date, place of vaccination, a signature, as well as the sticky label from the box glued on the line. It is recognised everywhere in the world.

Of course, the cynic in me says that is far too obvious and straightforward for the UK admin, so they will no doubt choose a completely different system and make it as annoying as possible. ;)


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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#408066

Postby AF62 » April 29th, 2021, 2:23 pm

Lootman wrote:
AF62 wrote:
stevensfo wrote:I'm always amazed when people show their phones at Check-in or at the Departure Gates. I always keep the printed document with me. I've seen too many queues held up due to people desperately trying to find the correct document on their phones.

Most likely people who don't know how their phones work!

If you are using an Apple phone then airline apps will generally allow you to save a copy of the boarding pass to Apple wallet, and if you made the booking, then a copy of the boarding passes for everyone on that booking. Apple wallet doesn't need any connectivity to work and can be found with a simple 'swipe up' from the bottom of the screen - and voila, a display of all your boarding cards, loyalty cards, credit cards for you to choose what you want to use.

It must have been years since I actually bothered to print out the paperwork.

There are other things that can go wrong with a phone even if no signal is needed. It can run out of charge. It can freeze. It can malfunction.


Phones running out of charge - not these days; they enter a low power mode to prevent this type of thing. As for freezing or malfunctioning, then you could equally say for paper documents that they could get wet, get torn, spontaneously combust, etc.

Lootman wrote:There is also the possibility that some countries may insist on seeing original paper documents.


The sort of country that has the type of border officials who ignore the rules and make life difficult for travellers (probably in the hope of a backhander) are not the sort of countries I generally travel to.

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Re: NHS Patient Access vs new NHS App?

#408073

Postby Lootman » April 29th, 2021, 2:32 pm

AF62 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
AF62 wrote:Most likely people who don't know how their phones work!

If you are using an Apple phone then airline apps will generally allow you to save a copy of the boarding pass to Apple wallet, and if you made the booking, then a copy of the boarding passes for everyone on that booking. Apple wallet doesn't need any connectivity to work and can be found with a simple 'swipe up' from the bottom of the screen - and voila, a display of all your boarding cards, loyalty cards, credit cards for you to choose what you want to use.

It must have been years since I actually bothered to print out the paperwork.

There are other things that can go wrong with a phone even if no signal is needed. It can run out of charge. It can freeze. It can malfunction.

Phones running out of charge - not these days; they enter a low power mode to prevent this type of thing. As for freezing or malfunctioning, then you could equally say for paper documents that they could get wet, get torn, spontaneously combust, etc.

All the more reason to carry both then, since you agree with me that either one could fail when you need it most. However we will always need to cater for the minority who do not have or use smart phones, or who have old phones.

My other problem with this idea is that some people will have been vaccinated outside of the NHS. I was for instance. So the NHS app isn't going to work for me. And it also isn't going to work for any foreign visitor to the UK, so border checks are going to have to allow for various alternatives.

But what really worries me is how Heathrow is going to perform all these extra checks when travel is back to normal, if these manual checks continue. Already the e-gates are not being used, which is a disaster. It used to be the case that most people pass through border control and customs without human intervention. Not any more, and May 17th could be an unmitigated disaster.


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