Can anyone reassure us or are we alone?

[Arborbridge]

I know that I am not responsible for killing anyone or making anyone ill by my inaction. I can sleep well at night.


As someone observed on this board, if everyone had done their bit, it is quite possible that this would all be in the rearview mirror by now.

It was people doing their bit which helped this to spread. They were not being selfish or ill disciplined, they were risking their lives to help people like you stay at home.

If anyone thinks that if only we had all stayed at home, this would all be over now, then I would counter that they are being entirely fanciful. Well, OK, it might have been theoretically possible: by stopping all shipments and deliveries of food thus starving us; by stopping all hospital and social services functions, thus killing people; by stopping all covid vaccine research; by freezing the whole economy, thus wrecking the country for three generations.

As I say, fanciful and it probably would not have worked anyway, resulting in a vast well of human suffering and eventually a pandemic.



Arb.

[Lootman]

I met some friends of mine for their first walk in the countryside for 18 months last weekend. They have been so terrified of covid that they have not moved from the house until recently, and frankly, I hardly recognised them, they had aged so much. The wife in particular, had developed extreme germophobic habits and even now on the walk wore a pair of gloves topped by a pair of disposal medical ones. As she walked along she kept wringing her hands as though she is so used to using sanitiser she cannot stop mimmicking the action.

It is probably fair to say that the pandemic has brought out the neurosis, paranoia, hypochondria and other mental illnesses in a lot of people where previous they had lain dormant.

[murraypaul]

As someone observed on this board, if everyone had done their bit, it is quite possible that this would all be in the rearview mirror by now.

It was people doing their bit which helped this to spread. They were not being selfish or ill disciplined, they were risking their lives to help people like you stay at home.

The answer, of course, is somewhere in the middle.
Yes, many people were going about vital business to keep the nation running.
On the other end of the scale you had ... Rangers supporters.
A little bit more self discipline there might have helped.

[Sunnypad]

I met some friends of mine for their first walk in the countryside for 18 months last weekend. They have been so terrified of covid that they have not moved from the house until recently, and frankly, I hardly recognised them, they had aged so much. The wife in particular, had developed extreme germophobic habits and even now on the walk wore a pair of gloves topped by a pair of disposal medical ones. As she walked along she kept wringing her hands as though she is so used to using sanitiser she cannot stop mimmicking the action.

It is probably fair to say that the pandemic has brought out the neurosis, paranoia, hypochondria and other mental illnesses in a lot of people where previous they had lain dormant.

Or were they created from scratch? I described my own germ phobia pre pandemic earlier so it's not a judgement. Just observing. Some people seem to have just discovered infectious disease and death, which confuses me as surely if they have no experience of illness, they know people who have.

I pretty much switched off media from April 2020 but hearing about some of the campaigns and stories...and the signage at bus stops and so on....I can see why some people have become incredibly anxious.

I just laughed at "act like you've got it" because what that means is call in sick, get people to do your shopping because you're ill and need help but mum was genuinely shocked by it. I read about "don't let a coffee cost lives" in the trade press but thankfully that one got withdrawn quite quickly.

I admit, this time last year I didn't have a lot of sympathy for the terrified but after reading the Laura Dodsworth book and hearing about campaigns I didn't see, I do see that the all this will have made people ill.

I hate the Tube with a passion but I am oddly grateful that I had to use it throughout. I might actually have some immune system left too, who knows.

[tjh290633]

I just wonder whether those who have isolated to the nth degree, and keep taking precautions, are storing up trouble for themselves when (if ever) they venture out into the world again.

We have a friend with severe asthma who was shielding for a long time. Like us, she is now doubly vaccinated and comes out with us for a pub lunch every week. She cannot wear a face mask but has a perspex face shield. She is more likely to have problems from other infections than Covid. Common colds can lead to hospitalisation for her.

The time will soon be on us for booster jabs and flu jabs. Is the OP worried about going for those?

TJH

[swill453]

We have a friend with severe asthma who was shielding for a long time. Like us, she is now doubly vaccinated and comes out with us for a pub lunch every week. She cannot wear a face mask but has a perspex face shield. She is more likely to have problems from other infections than Covid. Common colds can lead to hospitalisation for her.

Whenever I see someone with a face shield and no mask, it always strikes me that it doesn't seem to offer much protection. It might stop splashes of saliva reaching you, but transmission by aerosol would just go round the side or up from underneath.

I can see a value if you wear it with a facemask, but not much on its own.

Scott.

[Arizona11]

I just wonder whether those who have isolated to the nth degree, and keep taking precautions, are storing up trouble for themselves when (if ever) they venture out into the world again.


The time will soon be on us for booster jabs and flu jabs. Is the OP worried about going for those?

TJH

No I am not worried because, unlike going to the pub, getting vaccinated is in my opinion a necessity.

[Dod101]

I just wonder whether those who have isolated to the nth degree, and keep taking precautions, are storing up trouble for themselves when (if ever) they venture out into the world again.


The time will soon be on us for booster jabs and flu jabs. Is the OP worried about going for those?

TJH

No I am not worried because, unlike going to the pub, getting vaccinated is in my opinion a necessity.

With respect, given your lifestyle getting a booster vaccination seems somewhat unnecessary.

Dod

[77ss]

.....
I pretty much switched off media from April 2020 but hearing about some of the campaigns and stories...and the signage at bus stops and so on....I can see why some people have become incredibly anxious....

Quite so. Non-stop propaganda and fearmongering. Nothing short of brainwashing. Government, media and businesses out to make a fast buck.

Life is a risky business. One needs to keep a sense of proportion. Not always easy at the best of times and I suspect that many people will have been permanently damaged.

[Itsallaguess]

I just wonder whether those who have isolated to the nth degree, and keep taking precautions, are storing up trouble for themselves when (if ever) they venture out into the world again.

The time will soon be on us for booster jabs and flu jabs. Is the OP worried about going for those?

No I am not worried because, unlike going to the pub, getting vaccinated is in my opinion a necessity.

With respect, given your lifestyle getting a booster vaccination seems somewhat unnecessary.

To be fair Dod, I don't think there's anything in Arizona's posts here that suggests any innate desire to stick with a further cautious approach, and I thought it was fairly clear that one of the main concerns is that infection rates are currently still quite high, and subsequently the risk of infection is too, even if it's accepted that any subsequent suffering might well be mitigated by an already double-jabbed situation....

So if Arizona is simply preferring to wait until those local and national infection-rates drop further before starting to relax in ways that clearly many here are already comfortable doing, then I think it's absolutely imperative that any further booster vaccinations are taken up as soon as they are offered, so as to deliver the maximum protection when that improved infection situation actually occurs...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Alaric]

Whenever I see someone with a face shield and no mask, it always strikes me that it doesn't seem to offer much protection. It might stop splashes of saliva reaching you, but transmission by aerosol would just go round the side or up from underneath.

If the main idea behind face masks is to protect other people, then face shields would work just as well. The risk being that someone who is infectious but unaware of it is spreading the virus.

[swill453]

If the main idea behind face masks is to protect other people, then face shields would work just as well.

You think? Your breath will find a way round the mask, unfiltered. It'll just change direction a little.

Scott.

[Arborbridge]

Quite so. Non-stop propaganda and fearmongering. Nothing short of brainwashing. Government, media and businesses out to make a fast buck.

Life is a risky business. One needs to keep a sense of proportion. Not always easy at the best of times and I suspect that many people will have been permanently damaged.

But it worked, spectacularly well. We can argue about whether it did any good - I happen to believe it did (just check the charts of infections) - but the campaign was really successful. And note that people have taken to the message so well that they wear masks and socially distance even now when it is not obligatory to do so. The government might be rushing headlong into opening up, but the public is aware that infections are still very high and are voting with their masks and feet.
I think it was a excellent thing, and the public - in the main - picked up and ran with it, not out of blind fear but just assessing the risk and using commonsense.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

I just wonder whether those who have isolated to the nth degree, and keep taking precautions, are storing up trouble for themselves when (if ever) they venture out into the world again.


The time will soon be on us for booster jabs and flu jabs. Is the OP worried about going for those?

TJH

No I am not worried because, unlike going to the pub, getting vaccinated is in my opinion a necessity.

You are right, and clinics etc are very well served by an appointment system so that one is in and out quickly and most importantly not surrounded by jostling crowds!

[1nvest]

My wife and I are early 60’s no kids and retired.
...
Here is the problem. Lifting all the restrictions recently was the worst thing that could happen as we want to get rid of the virus and also get our lives back again. All we read/hear is “if not now, then when?”

Early 60's with two mid 20's Covid return homers. For us there was no £2.5K/month payments to stay at home and lockdown has pretty much not occurred at all. They've still partied throughout and moved about to work etc. Last couple of weeks there's now also been crowded nightclubs, and now both have throatie type coughs, one is vaccinated the other not, the one vaccinated has a worse throat.

Mum, 89, contracted Covid last January after being admitted to hospital. Nothing came of that, barely even a snivel.

Also lost two distant second removed/whatever cousins partners, one young (30's) the other mid 40's, both were vaccinated.

The PM never followed protocols, should have implemented isolation/quarantine from the start as it could have been something far far deadlier. But his dad wanted to continue travelling to/from the continent. So far that's turned out lucky for him, just 100K of deaths, not millions. Lockdowns and selective funding for some to stay at home, not others ... complete joke and waste of money (more so when you also factor in multi-million contracts handed to mates). There seems to be just as many numbers of younger generation dying from vaccine complications as from Covid, maybe even more so.

Some reassurances would also be well received here, but as-is faith/trust/confidence is very low. As ever the UK parliament just incompetently muddles through, more often managing crises of its own making. If they're lucky they proclaim how great they are, if unlikely they'll divert blame or answering of questions, or hold a investigation just to document and sweep the matter under the carpet. Largely incompetent and IMO sovereignty wasn't returned to it but rather to the people, but it wont step aside to permit something more representative and competent.

Did start out much the same, washing all packaging etc. Predominately towards protecting mum. Family circumstances and her contraction of Covid however blow that all out of the water. Fear at first has faded into more just acceptance of when your numbers up ... and just live as much as possible between as there's no reset/restart button.

[Lootman]

Quite so. Non-stop propaganda and fearmongering. Nothing short of brainwashing. Government, media and businesses out to make a fast buck.

Life is a risky business. One needs to keep a sense of proportion. Not always easy at the best of times and I suspect that many people will have been permanently damaged.

But it worked, spectacularly well. We can argue about whether it did any good - I happen to believe it did (just check the charts of infections) - but the campaign was really successful. And note that people have taken to the message so well that they wear masks and socially distance even now when it is not obligatory to do so. The government might be rushing headlong into opening up, but the public is aware that infections are still very high and are voting with their masks and feet.
I think it was a excellent thing, and the public - in the main - picked up and ran with it, not out of blind fear but just assessing the risk and using commonsense.

Yes, one can argue that it was a deliberate over-reaction by the government that was shrewdly designed to instill a greater sense of caution amongst the populace than was justified by the facts. And there is some merit to that especially since for the most part it was not really mandatory on most people most of the time.

It helped the UK avoid the actual over-reaction that we saw in some other countries. And coupled with a successful vaccination programme, it turned out the UK and its government did a better job than most other places. Purely from a Covid point of view there are not many other countries I would want to be in right now.

[murraypaul]

There seems to be just as many numbers of younger generation dying from vaccine complications as from Covid, maybe even more so.

Any evidence at all for this claim?

[Arborbridge]

It helped the UK avoid the actual over-reaction that we saw in some other countries. And coupled with a successful vaccination programme, it turned out the UK and its government did a better job than most other places. Purely from a Covid point of view there are not many other countries I would want to be in right now.

The fear program and lockdown had the effect of putting the lid on the infection rates so that hospitals were not totally overwhelmed, slowing things down until a vaccine arrived.
I wonder how much Johnson in this war time mode was thinking of what happened in Britain in WW2? Chamberlain's procrastination may or may not have been deliberate, but it bought us time to ramp up preparations for what was to come.

Arb.

[Dod101]

Actually, if we have won this war it is down to vaccinations. End of. I am currently reading 'The Vaxxers'. Well worth the £20 or whatever it cost. These Professors did the most amazing job to get us to where we are today and so did the UK Government in authorising the purchase of millions of doses of vaccine before they were ever proved effective.

That is I think why we are in the advantageous position we are in. I used to be very bothered as a child with glandular fevour. Then along came penicillin, the wonder drug of the day. That is what these vaccines seem to me to be like.

Dod

[9873210]

it turned out the UK and its government did a better job than most other places.

By what metric? Mortality, Morbidity, GDP, jingoistic bombast?