Sunnypad wrote:To be clear, I don't give a stuff about the casedemic
I meant I'd rather de Santis was in charge because of the way he views the matter. I'd like to live while I'm alive.
I will shuffle off as I'm clearly a minority.
I don't think you / we are in the minority, or at least if we are, it certainly isn't a small 'minority'.
I, and I suspect others, haven't bothered challenging many of the comments on the thread, in part because the arguments about Texas, Florida, or whereever, are rather irrelevant, and if people want to argue the t**s of which is 'better', then I'm just going stand to one side and leave them to it.
In other parts of the thread, I had actually spent a while composing a long response to the OP's subsequent reply, but stopped short of clicking submit because you'd already got in first and pretty much covered most of it, so I just gave your post a thumbs up instead.
Initially I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt, bearing in mind the hysteria in the news, etc, and with that being most people's only view on the world it's quite understandable how people can end up thinking such things, without being crazy or irrational, but when it became apparent that they weren't for listening to anyone who doesn't share their view, then I just figure if the OP wants to stay indoors and act all OCD, then fine, that's not my concern, and while they sit there, smug and arrogant, thinking they are morally superior, so what? Let's leave them to it. I'm not going to spend any longer trying to provide any balance to the debate if they're not interested in listening.
What I'm saying is that just because people aren't jumping in to argue with you (I mean alongside you backing up your point), don't assume it's because others don't agree with you. It's more because since the rules are now relaxed and we can largely do what we like, then there's no point arguing. If we want to take more risks (at a level we deem appropriate) we're now permitted. If the OP et al want to stay covering under the sofa, they are also permitted to do so as well.
So there isn't such a need to argue now. As you've mentioned before, if some people want to tunnel vision and think only of minimising deaths and nothing else, then as long as they're no longer dictating how I can live my life, then what the heck, just leave them to argue amongst themselves.
It's quite funny really. I'm usually a really hesitant person out and about. I mean, when the seasons change from winter to summer and so on, I'm usually the last person out in the most inappropriate clothing, because I'm too nervous about being seen to have changed to wearing something different to the day before - I always tend to wear the same things, day in, day out, and usually find it difficult to change. So I'll still be wearing just a t-shirt when it's way too cold, and then after winter still wearing my coat when it's way too warm.
Yet, maybe it's just because I'm getting older now, but I've managed to find the confidence to go shopping without a mask without waiting to see what other people do. I don't 'deny covid' or anything like that... I still keep a distance from everyone, still shop a times when the shops will be quieter... it's only the mask that I choose not to wear ...
... and I find it quite amusing that the past few weeks, I seem to have been the only one still using hand sanitizer provided at the door of the supermarket ... all those with masks walk straight past it without using it, then use their hands to adjust their face masks, usually handling the mask right on the part they're breathing through - i.e. the 'contaminated' part - and then walk around the store handling all the produce... that's produce that others have touched after handling their face mask and not using sanitizer on their hands. Go figure!
I noticed that Tesco now have quite a strong air flow from their air conditioning. I presume that this is a more discreet anti-covid measure. The volume of air they seemed to have circulating made it almost feel like outside. It wasn't like a strong draft, but it seemed to be very broad, like they've made a big effort to make it cover everywhere in the store - like being outside on a nice day with a pleasant gentle breeze in every aisle. It does help that the Tesco I shop at is a huge store, with plenty of space. (I still haven't been in the Morrison's that I also used to shop at pre-pandemic, because that's a small store, and no chance of keeping a distance from other people... I'll wait a couple more months at least before returning there).
I suspect apart from where people collect at the checkouts, the rest of the (Tesco) store is probably no higher risk than outside. And credit to Tesco, all through the pandemic they've prioritised the checkouts to ensure there's hardly any of a queue, at least not at the times I shop, so time at the checkouts is minimised.
I suppose what I'm saying is that many of us now don't see the point in arguing. We are no longer being treated like little kids, and we can adapt how we play our part best suited to our personality, etc.
There's now less of the horrendous polarisation that has been front and centre throughout the pandemic. I mean, up until recently, if you weren't 110% gung-ho for demanding masks everywhere, demanding that everyone be locked up, etc, you were automatically pigeon-holed as a covid-denying, anti-vax, 5g conspiracist, Trump supporting, fruit and nut loop. There was no in between. You couldn't have a rational debate. The moment you questioned anything, however small, or tried to get some balance, that was it... you were assumed to be all of the above mentioned.
It mattered previously, because those covid dictators were mandating through the law how we must behave. So good reason to vocally argue against it.
But now, so what?
And more over, it seems that the public behaviour has actually defied all the doom and gloom merchants. It has become increasingly apparent that when restrictions were lifted, cases have actually gone down. Even the scientists are now starting to accept that they underestimated people and their behaviour - i.e. it is very apparent that people are more intelligent than the government or scientists, or even the rest of the public give them credit for.
And in actual fact it seems that when you don't dictate how people must behave and let them make their own judgements for themselves, it actually looks like we are doing a better job than when we were being told what to do.
And there's some sense in that, because clearly a one-size-fits-all isn't going to work for everyone. But if you let people adapt their behaviour in their own ways, and don't dictate what they must do, it appears that the end result is actually more effective. People are able to adapt their behaviour in the ways that they themselves are best able.
So yeah, since we can now each choose how best we can play our part - and it will be different for everyone - then meh, what's the point in arguing.
That's no to say I won't from time to time still enter into debate... but I'm not necessarily going to waste time going round the same circular arguments every time with people clearly steadfast in their views. Let's just let them argue amongst themselves over which country has done the 'best'. Or whatever.
I mean lets face it, even australia is now struggling - I'd rather be here than Australia at the moment! And even China who many looked to as an example of eradication, now seems to be accepting that eradication may not be possible, as they are now dealing with new outbreaks, even with supposedly closed borders. (I had a quick look for the link again for the article (either BBC or guardian), but a first page result from google hasn't found it, but I doubt it would make any difference anyway, even if I spent more time to dig it out, so I'm not going to bother looking any further.)
In summary - I don't think you're alone.
I think the majority now accept that the pandemic is all but over. The majority (certainly of the main at risk groups) have had the vaccine. If the vaccine doesn't work - particularly when it's been so spectacularly successful in the trials, beating everyone's best hopes - if it turns out now to not work, then there are no grounds at all to believe that anything else is going to come around and help us.
In short - this is it. We are opening up.
The vaccines look like they are working, which is great.
But if they don't, or variants evade them, I don't think the public have the patience to go through all the pandemic rigmarole again.
We are now entering the 'acceptance' phase ... clearly for some (like the OP) it's going to take longer than others... but this is it. This is the covid that we are going to have to LIVE with going forwards.
And you're not alone... we've already lost well over 1 year of our lives being dictated to how we must act... enough's enough... I think most people now accept it's time to accept the risk as it is and start LIVING again.