Strange Vaccine Rules

[onthemove]

That leaves vaccine supply. Worldwide vaccine supply has been getting better, much better, not worse.

It's more complicated than that - the time they started getting really picky about intervals was just as it became apparent that mRNA would become the default for under-30s and used by a lot of over 30s as well. Up to that point, Ox-AZ had been the majority of UK jabs, so effectively that move to mRNA knocked out over half our existing capacity. And I've read (not from official sources) that we're not due to get another delivery from Pfizer until September, which would be consistent with the way that HMG is not exactly racing to do the Obvious Thing of getting all teenagers double-jabbed before school starts.

I ended up getting the Moderna jab ( )... even though I'm over 40; I guess it was because I believed my GP was going to contact me when it was my turn (the texts they sent told me that!), and the GP is just round the corner, so really convenient, so just waited patiently... in the end they never did contact me, and when I checked, it would have been for an appointment at a vaccination centre anyway... but by that time, I guess the vaccination centres had already switched to the Pfizer / Moderna jabs for the younger age groups, so that's what they had in stock, and so that's what I got.

Except, the NHS then cancelled my second jab ... earliest new appointment 2+ weeks later.

They didn't give a reason why they cancelled... I guess it's either supply issues, or perhaps they had staff issues with the pingdemic.

[onthemove]

My daughter and I were strolling through Bloomsbury today. She works in hospitality, she has not had covid, she had the first injection on June 11th, she has been trying to get an appt for her second and has managed to get one for later in August.

So just at the back of the Brunswick centre we come across a pop up vaccine clinic in a mobile unit, no queue. She walks up and asks if she can have her second vaccine. She shows them the date of her first and the response was, "Sorry you will have to wait until tomorrow".

I thought the government was trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible...clearly not.

John

I'm not really sure what the issue is? The vaccine has been authorised for use with a minimum 8 week gap between doses by those people with the scientific and medical knowledge to make that decision. The government are following that decision and giving second doses after 8 weeks. I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

Hmm.. how you've worded it is slightly ambiguous...

But to be clear, the Pfizer vaccine is approved for as short as 21 days interval between doses, and the AZ / Moderna both 28 days...

"COVID-19 vaccines schedule
Although the 2 recommended doses of Pfizer BioNTech vaccine can be given a minimum of 21 days apart and the AstraZeneca and Moderna vaccine doses can be given a minimum of 28 days apart,..."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _v3.10.pdf

The 8 week gap is just a recommendation...

"... JCVI is currently recommending an interval of 8 weeks between doses of all the available COVID-19 vaccines where a two-dose primary
schedule is used"

[redsturgeon]

My daughter and I were strolling through Bloomsbury today. She works in hospitality, she has not had covid, she had the first injection on June 11th, she has been trying to get an appt for her second and has managed to get one for later in August.

So just at the back of the Brunswick centre we come across a pop up vaccine clinic in a mobile unit, no queue. She walks up and asks if she can have her second vaccine. She shows them the date of her first and the response was, "Sorry you will have to wait until tomorrow".

I thought the government was trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible...clearly not.

John

I'm not really sure what the issue is? The vaccine has been authorised for use with a minimum 8 week gap between doses by those people with the scientific and medical knowledge to make that decision. The government are following that decision and giving second doses after 8 weeks. I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

If you can't see the issue with not be able to give a second dose at 7 weeks and 6 days when vaccines are going to waste then I can't help you.

If you can't see the issue with a young person who has to fly to the USA for college before his second dose is due being unable therefore to be double vaccinated then let me explain further. He may be able to get his second vaccination in the USA but then there will be an issue in both the US and in the UK with him trying to prove he is double vaccinated. This will mean that any activities that need a vaccine passport will not be available to him both here and in the US. It will mean that he will have to isolate for ten days on his return from the US at Xmas.

As for "expert advice", the Pfizer jab is licensed for the 2nd dose at 3 weeks not 8 weeks nor 12 weeks, we are the only country in the world to insist on eight weeks. I am fine with the general principle but the rigid application of arbitrary rules is not helpful. I actually know that vaccines are being given out before 8 weeks by some vaccination centres, we just have to find one.

Finally your ad hominem remark

I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

is uncalled for and not true. I have been aware for some time that different centres have been following different rules and I have not complained.


John

[redsturgeon]

Looks like things may be changing...too late for my son and daughter. This was reported a month ago.

The gap between coronavirus vaccine doses is set to be halved to four weeks to accelerate the administration of second jabs.

No 10 officials have asked the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) to provide urgent advice on reducing the dosing interval from eight weeks in the light of surging cases of the Delta variant and the imminent easing of lockdown restrictions.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait ... -d2d7sj3wv

Daughter now has a vaccine booked for tomorrow, hopefully she wont have caught covid in the last week while working. I am currently scouring local sites to find a vaccine for my son before he flies out next Tuesday.

So much for following expert advice!

John

[vagrantbrain]

My daughter and I were strolling through Bloomsbury today. She works in hospitality, she has not had covid, she had the first injection on June 11th, she has been trying to get an appt for her second and has managed to get one for later in August.

So just at the back of the Brunswick centre we come across a pop up vaccine clinic in a mobile unit, no queue. She walks up and asks if she can have her second vaccine. She shows them the date of her first and the response was, "Sorry you will have to wait until tomorrow".

I thought the government was trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible...clearly not.

John

I'm not really sure what the issue is? The vaccine has been authorised for use with a minimum 8 week gap between doses by those people with the scientific and medical knowledge to make that decision. The government are following that decision and giving second doses after 8 weeks. I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

If you can't see the issue with not be able to give a second dose at 7 weeks and 6 days when vaccines are going to waste then I can't help you.

If you can't see the issue with a young person who has to fly to the USA for college before his second dose is due being unable therefore to be double vaccinated then let me explain further. He may be able to get his second vaccination in the USA but then there will be an issue in both the US and in the UK with him trying to prove he is double vaccinated. This will mean that any activities that need a vaccine passport will not be available to him both here and in the US. It will mean that he will have to isolate for ten days on his return from the US at Xmas.

As for "expert advice", the Pfizer jab is licensed for the 2nd dose at 3 weeks not 8 weeks nor 12 weeks, we are the only country in the world to insist on eight weeks. I am fine with the general principle but the rigid application of arbitrary rules is not helpful. I actually know that vaccines are being given out before 8 weeks by some vaccination centres, we just have to find one.

Finally your ad hominem remark

I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

is uncalled for and not true. I have been aware for some time that different centres have been following different rules and I have not complained.


John

Not really - having a go at the people administering the vaccines because they wont bend the rules and put their jobs and registrations at risk just to suit you and your families life choices is what is uncalled for.

[servodude]

Not really - having a go at the people administering the vaccines because they wont bend the rules and put their jobs and registrations at risk just to suit you and your family's life choices is what is uncalled for.

Are they really striking off people who jab a day early?

Can you provide a link to a report where that has happened?
It's utterly unacceptable and I would like to complain - we need jabs in arms

It strikes me as the kind of misguided policy that would stiffen the rod up the fundament of a jobsworth (and God knows they don't need much encouragement - just give them a badge and watch the little Kaisers swell!)

Anyhow I am pretty sure that "early" second doses are covered in the vaccination programme guidance
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009174/COVID-19_vaccination_programme_guidance_for_healthcare_workers_6_August_2021_v3.10.pdf

- so if you find some ne'er-do-well with a hypodermic withholding a vaccine in the future you might want to direct them to that

- sd

[redsturgeon]

I'm not really sure what the issue is? The vaccine has been authorised for use with a minimum 8 week gap between doses by those people with the scientific and medical knowledge to make that decision. The government are following that decision and giving second doses after 8 weeks. I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

If you can't see the issue with not be able to give a second dose at 7 weeks and 6 days when vaccines are going to waste then I can't help you.

If you can't see the issue with a young person who has to fly to the USA for college before his second dose is due being unable therefore to be double vaccinated then let me explain further. He may be able to get his second vaccination in the USA but then there will be an issue in both the US and in the UK with him trying to prove he is double vaccinated. This will mean that any activities that need a vaccine passport will not be available to him both here and in the US. It will mean that he will have to isolate for ten days on his return from the US at Xmas.

As for "expert advice", the Pfizer jab is licensed for the 2nd dose at 3 weeks not 8 weeks nor 12 weeks, we are the only country in the world to insist on eight weeks. I am fine with the general principle but the rigid application of arbitrary rules is not helpful. I actually know that vaccines are being given out before 8 weeks by some vaccination centres, we just have to find one.

Finally your ad hominem remark

I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the government for not following the advice of the experts if they started giving second doses after 6 or 7 weeks so you can't have it both ways!

is uncalled for and not true. I have been aware for some time that different centres have been following different rules and I have not complained.


John

Not really - having a go at the people administering the vaccines because they wont bend the rules and put their jobs and registrations at risk just to suit you and your families life choices is what is uncalled for.

So reporting what someone says and making no judgement of that is in your opinion " having a go"? Hardly the volunteers fault that the government has cracked down on her ability to use her own best judgement.

And what life choice have I made that is of any relevance here. Another baseless and irrelevant ad hominem attack.

If you are referring to my daughter's "life choice" to work for a living and continue to work in a customer facing role during a life threatening pandemic then yes what a selfish person she must be to ask that she might be protected while she serves the likes of you.

Some people feel that sticking to the letter of the rules dictated to them by their bosses rather than use their own judgement to best meet the overall objective is the way to go through life, I think we know where that leads.

As I said, "strange vaccine rules" .

John

[vagrantbrain]

If you can't see the issue with not be able to give a second dose at 7 weeks and 6 days when vaccines are going to waste then I can't help you.

If you can't see the issue with a young person who has to fly to the USA for college before his second dose is due being unable therefore to be double vaccinated then let me explain further. He may be able to get his second vaccination in the USA but then there will be an issue in both the US and in the UK with him trying to prove he is double vaccinated. This will mean that any activities that need a vaccine passport will not be available to him both here and in the US. It will mean that he will have to isolate for ten days on his return from the US at Xmas.

As for "expert advice", the Pfizer jab is licensed for the 2nd dose at 3 weeks not 8 weeks nor 12 weeks, we are the only country in the world to insist on eight weeks. I am fine with the general principle but the rigid application of arbitrary rules is not helpful. I actually know that vaccines are being given out before 8 weeks by some vaccination centres, we just have to find one.

Finally your ad hominem remark is uncalled for and not true. I have been aware for some time that different centres have been following different rules and I have not complained.


John

Not really - having a go at the people administering the vaccines because they wont bend the rules and put their jobs and registrations at risk just to suit you and your families life choices is what is uncalled for.

So reporting what someone says and making no judgement of that is in your opinion " having a go"? Hardly the volunteers fault that the government has cracked down on her ability to use her own best judgement.

And what life choice have I made that is of any relevance here. Another baseless and irrelevant ad hominem attack.

If you are referring to my daughter's "life choice" to work for a living and continue to work in a customer facing role during a life threatening pandemic then yes what a selfish person she must be to ask that she might be protected while she serves the likes of you.

Some people feel that sticking to the letter of the rules dictated to them by their bosses rather than use their own judgement to best meet the overall objective is the way to go through life, I think we know where that leads.

As I said, "strange vaccine rules" .

John

How dare those medical professionals follow the instructions they've been given

And history is littered with examples of people being killed because someone else didn't think the rules were important enough to follow. Chernobyl, Herald of Free Enterprise, Piper Alpha, Fairchild B52 crash all spring to mind. They're dealing with medical procedures, not serving you a pint a one minute past time.

[redsturgeon]

Not really - having a go at the people administering the vaccines because they wont bend the rules and put their jobs and registrations at risk just to suit you and your families life choices is what is uncalled for.

So reporting what someone says and making no judgement of that is in your opinion " having a go"? Hardly the volunteers fault that the government has cracked down on her ability to use her own best judgement.

And what life choice have I made that is of any relevance here. Another baseless and irrelevant ad hominem attack.

If you are referring to my daughter's "life choice" to work for a living and continue to work in a customer facing role during a life threatening pandemic then yes what a selfish person she must be to ask that she might be protected while she serves the likes of you.

Some people feel that sticking to the letter of the rules dictated to them by their bosses rather than use their own judgement to best meet the overall objective is the way to go through life, I think we know where that leads.

As I said, "strange vaccine rules" .

John

How dare those medical professionals follow the instructions they've been given

And history is littered with examples of people being killed because someone else didn't think the rules were important enough to follow. Chernobyl, Herald of Free Enterprise, Piper Alpha, Fairchild B52 crash all spring to mind. They're dealing with medical procedures, not serving you a pint a one minute past time.

It's OK we've found someone prepared to break the rules...watch for the news of the resulting disaster!

I'm surprised that any intelligent person could think that giving a vaccine 2nd dose (licensed at three weeks) at 55 days instead of 56 would be a major medical problem.

John