This is not over - a plea

[Sunnypad]

I could have posted this on another ongoing thread but it seems too much of a sidetrack so not fair to the OP.

If it's in the wrong place, the mods might be kind enough to move it?

Some of us have been campaigning against lockdown since before it began in the UK! We're bleeping exhausted. And now we hear "oh but things are opening up". It's deja vu all over again.

Apart from the fearful on here, I see a lot of posters who treat this all as an exercise in stats. I see posters who haven't thought what keeps the wheels turning during lockdown. Well meaning, but seemingly transfixed by it all.

Now I see posters who think this is over. It is not. Apart from the mask law threat in London, we have vaccine ID hanging over us, and frankly after the removal of all our rights - for a VIRUS fgs - lord knows what else is on the horizon. Sunak has announced his events insurance this morning. Javid is consulting on making smoking for over 21s....because dog forbid people make their own decisions what they put in their body...

How many more "stay at homes" between now and March 26th?

Please take whatever democratic action you take. Pollsters clearly choose to be informed by a particular subset and they are very vocal.

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Please, please, if you don't want this to continue, stand up and be counted.

[Dod101]

Hi. What are you trying to say? The events insurance support provided by the Government seems reasonable enough to me. It appears to be to provide back up against organisers having to suspend events where they would otherwise face substantial losses in the event that an event had to be cancelled because of Covid restrictions. What is there to get worked up about?

This is not over. Well Covid is not over but everyone is now trying to get back to some sort of normality. Is that not what you want?

I don't want Covid to continue but I guess that is not what you are saying and in this context it does not matter what I want. It is not going to go away on (or your) say so.

Dod

[Sunnypad]

Hi. What are you trying to say? The events insurance support provided by the Government seems reasonable enough to me. It appears to be to provide back up against organisers having to suspend events where they would otherwise face substantial losses in the event that an event had to be cancelled because of Covid restrictions. What is there to get worked up about?
U
This is not over. Well Covid is not over but everyone is now trying to get back to some sort of normality. Is that not what you want?

I don't want Covid to continue but I guess that is not what you are saying and in this context it does not matter what I want. It is not going to go away on (or your) say so.

Dod

I mean the restrictions are not over, the tyrannical style of rule is not over
Sorry, should have been clearer
My bad
I forget who the audience is here .... Is there a way to change the title?

Events insurance - now why might big events need more robust cancellation insurance and what might be contained in the Ts and Cs?

[swill453]

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Isn't it entirely possible that Nadhim Zahawi was a founder, but also that the polls are impartial? Seems a bit like a conspiracy theory to suggest otherwise without evidence.

Scott.

[swill453]

Events insurance - now why might big events need more robust cancellation insurance

Because the organisers have literally been crying out for months for the government to provide cancellation insurance, otherwise they'd be taking huge personal risks.

what might be contained in the Ts and Cs?

I don't know. Do you?

Scott.

[Sunnypad]

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Isn't it entirely possible that Nadhim Zahawi was a founder, but also that the polls are impartial? Seems a bit like a conspiracy theory to suggest otherwise without evidence.

Scott.

Of course.

But polls are generally used to influence opinion, not to reflect it.

And if you torture the data long enough, it will tell whatever story you like.

That canx insurance will be contingent on vax ID, I'm sure.

Must be some quants/quals on LemonFool who know this stuff?

Anyway, I am actually going to do my work now, more stats

But really my post was for those who think normal is returning. It won't unless we fight for it. If you want it, please fight for it. I don't think many Fools do, but thought it worth a post anyway.

[GoSeigen]

I could have posted this on another ongoing thread but it seems too much of a sidetrack so not fair to the OP.

If it's in the wrong place, the mods might be kind enough to move it?

Some of us have been campaigning against lockdown since before it began in the UK! We're bleeping exhausted. And now we hear "oh but things are opening up". It's deja vu all over again.

Apart from the fearful on here, I see a lot of posters who treat this all as an exercise in stats. I see posters who haven't thought what keeps the wheels turning during lockdown. Well meaning, but seemingly transfixed by it all.

Now I see posters who think this is over. It is not. Apart from the mask law threat in London, we have vaccine ID hanging over us, and frankly after the removal of all our rights - for a VIRUS fgs - lord knows what else is on the horizon. Sunak has announced his events insurance this morning. Javid is consulting on making smoking for over 21s....because dog forbid people make their own decisions what they put in their body...

How many more "stay at homes" between now and March 26th?

Please take whatever democratic action you take. Pollsters clearly choose to be informed by a particular subset and they are very vocal.

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Please, please, if you don't want this to continue, stand up and be counted.

Good grief, is this the Olympic Sweeping Statements final?

Look at all the groups of poorly identified people you have made completely unsupported statements about:

-another thread's OP...
-some of us...
-the fearful...
-a lot of posters...
-posters who haven't thought...
-posters...
-posters who think this is over... [what is "this"??]
-we...
-people make their own decisions...
-Pollsters...
-People...
-an economist...
-you...

So, a lovely rant, but honestly you can't control all these different people, especially if you can't even clearly identify them. Why not just focus on your own things that you can control and let all the other stupid people be stupid?

Is there some particular issue that has triggered you?


GS

[Dod101]

Hi. What are you trying to say? The events insurance support provided by the Government seems reasonable enough to me. It appears to be to provide back up against organisers having to suspend events where they would otherwise face substantial losses in the event that an event had to be cancelled because of Covid restrictions. What is there to get worked up about?
U
This is not over. Well Covid is not over but everyone is now trying to get back to some sort of normality. Is that not what you want?

I don't want Covid to continue but I guess that is not what you are saying and in this context it does not matter what I want. It is not going to go away on (or your) say so.

Dod

I mean the restrictions are not over, the tyrannical style of rule is not over
Sorry, should have been clearer
My bad
I forget who the audience is here .... Is there a way to change the title?

Events insurance - now why might big events need more robust cancellation insurance and what might be contained in the Ts and Cs?

Whether or not the restrictions are tyrannical is a matter of opinion but organisers of big events will not want to expose themselves to large upfront costs if on approaching the date of the event say a big music festival it might have to be called off at the last minute. I do not think you need concern yourself with the T and C; that is for the insurers and organisers. They will always have insurance for such events anyway; it is just that commercial insurers will not want to expose themselves to claims which may arise by government decree as a result of a Covid outbreak. They have learned the lessons of imprecise policy wordings from the furore over business interruption insurance last year. What is wrong with that?

Dod

[77ss]

...

Now I see posters who think this is over. It is not.....

Quite so. The direct health threat is, I hope, diminishing. I don't suppose that it will ever go away entirely but the long term effects in areas other than health remain to be seen.

I have long been of the opinion that other agendas are being played out here - with Covid as the excuse.

Vaccination passports? National Identity Cards under another name? To name but one.

Unintended consequences (being charitable) as well.

Education has suffered - and much more so for the less well off families/state sector than for the better off/private sector. This one will run and run.

Levelling up? Sounds great doesn't it?

[UncleEbenezer]

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Isn't it entirely possible that Nadhim Zahawi was a founder, but also that the polls are impartial? Seems a bit like a conspiracy theory to suggest otherwise without evidence.

Scott.

Or perhaps tradition?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

[monabri]

What's wrong with having a vaccine ID? If it means encouraging people to get vaccinated? I'm positively for it and I wouldn't object if venues screened entry on that basis ( with additional funding for staff & equipment). The passport would be reviewed on a 3 month basis and the requirent removed.

My personal opinion ( note, my own view, right or wrong) is that the government should introduce such an ID and that the availability of free vaccinations should be time limited....that is " get them now for free or you will have to pay!"

"Tyrannical rule"?....I must have dozed off, I missed that bit. If I was PM, I'd be actually prepared to introduce such things as a vaccine ID and screening....I doubt the current PM has the will ( "sphericals") to do this.


( as for a sneaky way of introducing ID cards....sign me up! Id also insist that ID cards were checked on entry to hospital for treatments)

[Dod101]

What's wrong with having a vaccine ID? If it means encouraging people to get vaccinated? I'm positively for it and I wouldn't object if venues screened entry on that basis ( with additional funding for staff & equipment). The passport would be reviewed on a 3 month basis and the requirent removed.

My personal opinion ( note, my own view, right or wrong) is that the government should introduce such an ID and that the availability of free vaccinations should be time limited....that is " get them now for free or you will have to pay!"

"Tyrannical rule"?....I must have dozed off, I missed that bit. If I was PM, I'd be actually prepared to introduce such things as a vaccine ID and screening....I doubt the current PM has the will ( "sphericals") to do this.


( as for a sneaky way of introducing ID cards....sign me up! Id also insist that ID cards were checked on entry to hospital for treatments)

I entirely agree with all you have said. If we have vaccine IDs it will make life so much easier all round. What is a passport but a form of ID? No one as far as I know objects to them.

Dod

[MrFoolish]

What's wrong with having a vaccine ID? If it means encouraging people to get vaccinated? I'm positively for it and I wouldn't object if venues screened entry on that basis ( with additional funding for staff & equipment). The passport would be reviewed on a 3 month basis and the requirent removed.

Is that for the virus du jour (covid) or for every infectious disease?

[88V8]

...we have vaccine ID hanging over us, and frankly after the removal of all our rights ...

There has indeed been a step change in the level of Nanny State, something which on the whole I deplore or ignore, but in this case I accept. After all, you only have to look at idiot football supporters to see how people behave left to their own devices.
I also welcome vaccine passports if they ever become a real thing.

I would also welcome NHS charges for the overweight and the drunk. And the unvaccinated.

On the other hand I would like to be able to ride a motorbike with no helmet, as I used to.

I guess we all have our own peculiarities.

V8

[Midsmartin]

There have been a number of government decisions that seem a bit authoritarian recently:

The move to criminalise more protests. It's clearly aimed at Extinction Rebellion who have the laudable aim of trying to maintain the planet as habitable for civilisation. The govt must object to this aim. You can donate to ER online.

More recently we see that (if memory serves) the Official Secrets Act (or something) might be used to criminalise publication of government leaks - heaven forbid we find out all the dodgy things they are up to.

And in other areas - there was a time when we were told that planning decisions would be made more by local people for local people. Now we have a presumption that it's ok to destroy land (literally our own habitat) with concrete unless there's a really good reason not to.

Then there's the possible requirement to present ID to vote. I'm undecided whether this is a genuine fear of fraud, or a me-too Trump-style decision that means that the poor are less likely to vote. Though these days many of the poor seem to vote Conservative for some odd reason, so I may be wrong about this one.

But please keep wearing those masks in shops and confined spaces. It's a question of being kind and generous to others who may be vulnerable, or even just scared, while covid is still relatively common. Masks work. Distancing works. Vaccination IDs for nightclubs? If it saves lives and frees hospital beds, then yes please. Bring it on. Yes we need to head back to normal, but in a controlled and steady way.

[monabri]

What's wrong with having a vaccine ID? If it means encouraging people to get vaccinated? I'm positively for it and I wouldn't object if venues screened entry on that basis ( with additional funding for staff & equipment). The passport would be reviewed on a 3 month basis and the requirent removed.

Is that for the virus du jour (covid) or for every infectious disease?

The comment applies to Covid-19. It has been deemed a pandemic by medical experts, a vaccine has been developed so the sooner we are vaccinated the better ( medical exemption notwithstanding).

There are other infectious diseases and if the medical experts indicate we need to take action (quarantine, lockdown or whatever) then I'd follow their guidance/ advice.

I think we would have to treat each "disease" on a case by case basis. For example : Do I have an annual flu jab (yes)..would I mandate a passport (no). Why not..? Well whilst influenza is serious it hasn't caused nations to go into lockdown. The argument is based on pre-existing knowledge of what such a virus can do ( we knew little about Covid 19 ) from both a medical point of view and the economic argument. In the case of Covid 19...we had a problem, we have a way forward ( vaccination) so let's get on with it.

As for "every infectious disease"...I'm not qualified to make that call but if a passport ID promotes the reduction in the effects from Covid-19 ( medical, economic) then why not? We can debate whether one should have an vaccination ID for the next disease when it comes along.

[Mike88]

As far as I'm concerned the more restrictions the better. The decision to drop the requirement to wear masks on public transport and the opening up of nightclubs was downright idiotic.

[XFool]

I could have posted this on another ongoing thread but it seems too much of a sidetrack so not fair to the OP.

If it's in the wrong place, the mods might be kind enough to move it?

Some of us have been campaigning against lockdown since before it began in the UK! We're bleeping exhausted. And now we hear "oh but things are opening up". It's deja vu all over again.

Apart from the fearful on here, I see a lot of posters who treat this all as an exercise in stats. I see posters who haven't thought what keeps the wheels turning during lockdown. Well meaning, but seemingly transfixed by it all.

Now I see posters who think this is over. It is not. Apart from the mask law threat in London, we have vaccine ID hanging over us, and frankly after the removal of all our rights - for a VIRUS fgs - lord knows what else is on the horizon. Sunak has announced his events insurance this morning. Javid is consulting on making smoking for over 21s....because dog forbid people make their own decisions what they put in their body...

How many more "stay at homes" between now and March 26th?

Please take whatever democratic action you take. Pollsters clearly choose to be informed by a particular subset and they are very vocal.

People seem so strangely unaware of things. I've just spoken to an economist who didn't know Nadhim Zahawi was a founder of YouGov. He just thought the polls were a good reflection of what people wanted.

Please, please, if you don't want this to continue, stand up and be counted.

If we do, do you think the virus will pay any attention to us? Or even hear us?

[servodude]

There have been a number of government decisions that seem a bit authoritarian recently

Just as long as they don't ban standing in a field with my mates listening to music with repetitive beats...

Shouting.....Lager! Lager! Lager! Lager! Mega mega white thing!

[MrFoolish]

So, monabri, you are very much in favour of having a vaccination passport. But for what purpose exactly - would someone require one to shop at Tesco?