This is not over - a plea

[servodude]

Must be some quants/quals on LemonFool who know this stuff?

Who are you calling a quant?

Anyhow...it's a bit of a weird and stressful time for many at the moment

No one has any proven absolute correct answers
- some people find that frightening

Some folk have not seen much outside their walls for a year or so without really experiencing this disease (they might be a bit bemused)
- some have been over worked
- others have seen family die before their time

So it's understandable that there's a bit of mixed emotions

Give them (i.e. everyone pissing you off) a bit of space and try not to worry about them too much
Do what YOU are comfortable with
Do as much as YOU are happy with
- and then take a deep breath (in a safe place)

We'll all muddle through somehow

-sd

[Dod101]

Must be some quants/quals on LemonFool who know this stuff?

Who are you calling a quant?

Anyhow...it's a bit of a weird and stressful time for many at the moment

No one has any proven absolute correct answers
- some people find that frightening

Some folk have not seen much outside their walls for a year or so without really experiencing this disease (they might be a bit bemused)
- some have been over worked
- others have seen family die before their time

So it's understandable that there's a bit of mixed emotions

Give them (i.e. everyone pissing you off) a bit of space and try not to worry about them too much
Do what YOU are comfortable with
Do as much as YOU are happy with
- and then take a deep breath (in a safe place)

We'll all muddle through somehow

-sd

I think that Sunnypad is very fortunate to have someone like servotude to make such a balanced and patient response (if I may say so)

Dod

[MrFoolish]

Must be some quants/quals on LemonFool who know this stuff?

Who are you calling a quant?

Anyhow...it's a bit of a weird and stressful time for many at the moment

No one has any proven absolute correct answers
- some people find that frightening

Some folk have not seen much outside their walls for a year or so without really experiencing this disease (they might be a bit bemused)
- some have been over worked
- others have seen family die before their time

So it's understandable that there's a bit of mixed emotions

Give them (i.e. everyone pissing you off) a bit of space and try not to worry about them too much
Do what YOU are comfortable with
Do as much as YOU are happy with
- and then take a deep breath (in a safe place)

We'll all muddle through somehow

-sd

I think that Sunnypad is very fortunate to have someone like servotude to make such a balanced and patient response (if I may say so)

Dod

I also agree with the comments.

Sunnypad, there's not a lot of point in stressing over decisions that haven't been made yet.

And although I don't like BJ very much, it has to said that he's generally been against restrictions.

There are not many rules at the moment - so get out and do the things you want.

[monabri]

So, monabri, you are very much in favour of having a vaccination passport. But for what purpose exactly - would someone require one to shop at Tesco?

The main purpose being to persuade people to go and get vaccinated such that we get to a point when we are not seeing 700+Covid being admitted daily to hospital as we "open up".

Specifically shopping at supermarkets, I would argue "no", as one doesn't come into close contact for any length of time (as opposed to standing in a pub, club, indoor sporting event, indoor concert). We've been living with Covid-19 for close on 17months and I believe that measures ( sanitiser, 2m rule) should be kept in place in supermarkets, measures introduced before a vaccine was available.

[MrFoolish]

So, monabri, you are very much in favour of having a vaccination passport. But for what purpose exactly - would someone require one to shop at Tesco?

The main purpose being to persuade people to go and get vaccinated such that we get to a point when we are not seeing 700+Covid being admitted daily to hospital as we "open up".

Specifically shopping at supermarkets, I would argue "no", as one doesn't come into close contact for any length of time (as opposed to standing in a pub, club, indoor sporting event, indoor concert). We've been living with Covid-19 for close on 17months and I believe that measures ( sanitiser, 2m rule) should be kept in place in supermarkets, measures introduced before a vaccine was available.

I think we need to be careful about being too prescriptive with things for too long. If people start to think (rightly or wrongly) the rules are serving no good purpose, eventually they'll just think "sod it" and they'll do their own thing. Which is fine until the next problem comes along, cos these same people will carry their acquired mistrust along with them. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

[Alaric]

We've been living with Covid-19 for close on 17months and I believe that measures ( sanitiser, 2m rule) should be kept in place in supermarkets, measures introduced before a vaccine was available.

Having been doing the weekly shopping for the last 17 months, I don't believe any real notice is taken of a strict instruction to maintain a two metre distance from other people. Once supermarkets abandoned their one way systems, flows of people have been as normal. You get people slowly browsing the shelves looking for something specific, whilst others walk past in both directions on their way to something else. If supermarkets really were a serious risk factor in spreading, they would have been put under a "track and trace" regime and for that matter have periodically been named and shamed as super spreaders.

[Sunnypad]

Wasn't expecting any replies! And some surprising ones, given the attitude I normally find here.

"Sunnypad, there's not a lot of point in stressing over decisions that haven't been made yet."

There really IS a lot of value in doing this. We could be Cyprus or France right now. Can you bleeping imagine?!

Many organisations and individuals are working hard in the hopes we don't end up there. There is a LOT of point in trying to influence politicians, especially the current crop.

Bodily autonomy? If we're ditching that, Oestrogen injections in men would be my vote. Reduce male violence and increase safety for all.

Masks to protect the vulnerable? I AM vulnerable. My health prevents mask wearing but that's okay, because it does almost nothing. If anyone remembers evidence based medicine

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-l ... -politics/

Also, masked men when you're late home on public transport...not their fault of course...but horrible, especially if you're the only woman in the carriage. Thanks to all who don't wear them. I have a legal "excuse" but I really appreciate the refusers.

Thanks to all who replied

If I survive a weekend of funeral planning, elderly parent caring, more estate agent faff - well, more solicitor faff maybe - I'll see you next week.

[swill453]

There really IS a lot of value in doing this. We could be Cyprus or France right now. Can you bleeping imagine?!

A lot of the time when you say things, it's in a veiled way where the meaning is not clear. From the above I don't know whether you'd prefer to "be Cyprus or France right now" or not. It could be read both ways. What is it about them that you admire (or not)?

A bit of clarity about what you actually think would be good.

Scott.

[MrFoolish]

Many organisations and individuals are working hard in the hopes we don't end up there. There is a LOT of point in trying to influence politicians, especially the current crop.

But you need to choose your battles carefully. There's so much noise around covid that if you make nebulous complaints about things that *might* happen then you simply won't be heard.

Wait for specifics. Wait for decisions that fly in the face of the scientific evidence. Then ask your MP to look into it. Though if you are in safe Tory seat your only option might be chaining yourself to a fence somewhere. Good luck.

[1nvest]

If we have vaccine IDs it will make life so much easier all round. What is a passport but a form of ID? No one as far as I know objects to them.

Enforced curtailing of freedoms in the absence of a certain tick not having been recorded within a mandatory ID system is a slippery slope. Consider the rise of a government that perhaps deemed anyone with a certain religion, condition or recorded observation within a mandatory ID system should be treated "differently". Or in China where in order to partake in social events or travel you have to have so many 'good citizen' points or otherwise potentially lose your job, home, freedom.

[UncleEbenezer]

If we have vaccine IDs it will make life so much easier all round. What is a passport but a form of ID? No one as far as I know objects to them.

Enforced curtailing of freedoms in the absence of a certain tick not having been recorded within a mandatory ID system is a slippery slope. Consider the rise of a government that perhaps deemed anyone with a certain religion, condition or recorded observation within a mandatory ID system should be treated "differently". Or in China where in order to partake in social events or travel you have to have so many 'good citizen' points or otherwise potentially lose your job, home, freedom.

Yeah, but you don't need a passport to have a credit score. And various more ill-defined scores based on, for example, your charisma or lack thereof.

For clarity, I agree with your point. And I think vaccine coercion - like the nightclub rule - likely to be counterproductive, as you get pushback from those who don't like being pushed around.

[Sunnypad]

There really IS a lot of value in doing this. We could be Cyprus or France right now. Can you bleeping imagine?!

A lot of the time when you say things, it's in a veiled way where the meaning is not clear. From the above I don't know whether you'd prefer to "be Cyprus or France right now" or not. It could be read both ways. What is it about them that you admire (or not)?

A bit of clarity about what you actually think would be good.

Scott.

France - you have to show papers/covid pass to go to a restaurant

Cyprus - you have to show them for the supermarket. Really.

I am not trying to be opaque, sorry. I have been a Lemon for a looooong time and people here are usually much better informed about this sort of thing than I am.

1nvest - exactly right.

The poster who made the comment about picking battles - that is exactly what I am doing.

It was important to post here. i am glad I did. It seems there are many posters who genuinely don't see the mission creep, don't have a sense of how this is going etc. They are the people who, in summer 2020, said "why are people protesting against lockdown when it's over" and believed in three weeks to protect the NHS.

[swill453]

I am not trying to be opaque, sorry. I have been a Lemon for a looooong time and people here are usually much better informed about this sort of thing than I am.

Knowing what the situation is in different countries isn't the issue, it's easy to find out.

Knowing which bit of it you're referring to, and what you think about it is harder, when you're not explicit.

(You've only been a Lemon for 5 hours more than me )

Scott.

[XFool]

France - you have to show papers/covid pass to go to a restaurant

Cyprus - you have to show them for the supermarket. Really.

So not, currently, like the UK?

It was important to post here. i am glad I did.

Well I do hope it has helped and allowed you some outlet for your frustrations.

It seems there are many posters who genuinely don't see the mission creep, don't have a sense of how this is going etc.

Possibly. Possibly not... I certainly see "mission creep" in some people's thinking. Once, "lockdown" meant well, lockdown. At least in the UK it meant our kind of lockdown - which could still be argued was not really a hard "lockdown".

But those lockdowns are behind us now (and hopefully, not ahead of us). Largely thanks to the vaccine. We are currently on an opening up trajectory.
But that's a 'trajectory' not Happy Monday. Pandemics do eventually come to an end, but not usually by simply stealing away in the night.

The trouble is, or seems to me to be, that the word "lockdown" has since, for some, been 'repurposed'. It now means... well, what? At the limit it seems to mean: "Anything I don't like." So leaving plenty of space for 'lockdown' misery.

They are the people who, in summer 2020, said "why are people protesting against lockdown when it's over" and believed in three weeks to protect the NHS.

Yes. I guess I was one of 'those', I still am. "Lockdown"? It's over! (But watch this space...)

[Alaric]

But those lockdowns are behind us now (and hopefully, not ahead of us).

We do at least seem to have gone past the state of affairs where you could be fined if you were outside your house without "a lawful excuse". Unless the powers of a government to impose such restrictions with a stroke of a pen have been revoked, it's not so obvious why they couldn't be brought back. Already the Mayor of London wants the power to fine anyone not wearing a mask on Transport for London services

[Sunnypad]

But those lockdowns are behind us now (and hopefully, not ahead of us).

We do at least seem to have gone past the state of affairs where you could be fined if you were outside your house without "a lawful excuse". Unless the powers of a government to impose such restrictions with a stroke of a pen have been revoked, it's not so obvious why they couldn't be brought back. Already the Mayor of London wants the power to fine anyone not wearing a mask on Transport for London services

They can be brought back faster that you can say "deja vu all over again". Check the Coronavirus Act...still in place.

I really am getting on the Tube now...

[9873210]

There is nothing so durable as a "war emergency power".

Bicycle tail lamps are still required due to WWII blackout regulations.

[1nvest]

Raises the broader issue of whether Parliament should be replaced. The people lawfully voted for sovereignty to be returned, parliament gifted that sovereignty away, didn't want it back, but wont step aside for the sovereign people, is assuming sovereignty is its own. Primarily serves its own and bankers best interests, not those who elected it, more often is just managing crises of its own making. Well overdue for a 21st century change rather than clowns in wigs and half hour antiquated voting systems in a press of a button age.

[Itsallaguess]

I've got to that age where, walking around a lovely new city and admiring the architecture, I often find myself thinking 'We could never achieve that today...', and feeling a little sad that it's most probably true...

I've just realised that I'm starting to think the same thing about us defeating Polio...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[swill453]

I've just realised that I'm starting to think the same thing about us defeating Polio...

Nah, sugar lumps rather than needles. Easy...

Scott.