Pfizer Booster for Delta

[onthemove]

I thought the vaccines being given as boosters are still the first generation coronavirus vaccines developed against the original coronavirus variant, even though I'm aware that variant adapted vaccines are being trialled.

But just spoke to my mum earlier who told me that she'd just had her booster earlier today, and apparently the 'ambulance driver'(*) told her that the Pfizer jab she'd been given was adapted to the delta variant, so he told her she should have really broad protection now for the range of coronavirus variants.

I questioned whether she'd understood correctly but she seemed quite adamant this is what this 'ambulance driver' had told her, and it seemed to be the take-away message that she got from her visit to get vaccinated.

I don't recall hearing of a new version of the Pfizer vaccine adapted to the delta variant being approved for general deployment yet, and I've just googled and it's not throwing anything up along these lines either - in fact, information about the booster program that google linked to just talks about 'the' pfizer vaccine as though it is 'the' same one as was given to people as a first dose earlier in the year.

Have I missed something and delta variant adapted vaccines (at least for Pfizer) are now actually being given in the general booster roll out in England?

Thanks

--
[(*) not sure where the 'ambulance driver' comes into it; a friend drove her there ... I presume the ambulance driver must be someone assisting at the vaccination centre, or perhaps on standby at the centre in case someone has a bad reaction]

[Alaric]

I thought the vaccines being given as boosters are still the first generation coronavirus vaccines developed against the original coronavirus variant, even though I'm aware that variant adapted vaccines are being trialled.

I had a booster today. Although the previous two were Astra Zeneca, today's was Pfizer and that and Moderna were all they are using.

[onthemove]

I thought the vaccines being given as boosters are still the first generation coronavirus vaccines developed against the original coronavirus variant, even though I'm aware that variant adapted vaccines are being trialled.

I had a booster today. Although the previous two were Astra Zeneca, today's was Pfizer and that and Moderna were all they are using.

But is that 'the' original Pfizer, or an updated Pfizer version for the delta variant?

I'm aware that the booster program is only giving out 'Pfizer' or 'Moderna', even if AZ was given previously (which it was for my mum), unless there's a medical reason why someone can't have those two.

But my question is, is the Pfizer that is being given as a booster now specifically updated for the delta variant? i.e. is this a different version of the Pfizer vaccine compared to what was given to people who also had the 'Pfizer' vaccine as a first jab.

My mum seemed to come away with the very clear impression from this 'ambulance driver' that the pfizer she'd been given was specifically updated to target the delta variant.

A strong enough impression from this ambulance driver, that nothing I could say would change her mind - as far as she's concerned she's now had a vaccine specifically targetting the delta variant, in addition to another vaccine, the AZ vaccine, targeting the original variant, so she now has the very clear impression that she has now quite broad protection against two strains rather than just one.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the pfizer has been updated - I mean, updated and actually being given out already (not just in trials).

[Alaric]

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the pfizer has been updated - I mean, updated and actually being given out already (not just in trials).

i was given a leaflet which gives the name "Comirnaty " and is dated 09/2021.

The leaflet states the active substance as "COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine"

[vrdiver]

From an article in Nature, dated 20th October 2021:

Pfizer currently has no plans to deploy its Beta or Delta vaccines among the public.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02854-3

So I suspect the "ambulance driver" was helpfully reassuring everybody, but incorrect.

VRD

[richfool]

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the pfizer has been updated - I mean, updated and actually being given out already (not just in trials).

i was given a leaflet which gives the name "Comirnaty " and is dated 09/2021.

The leaflet states the active substance as "COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine"

I had my Pfizer booster about a week ago, and for what it's worth, at the top of my leaflet it says: "Please Do Not Leave Until 11.03".

No seriously, it goes on to refer to a "Comirnarty concentrate for dispersion for injection COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)"
I don't know whether the reference to nucleoside modified indicates any change from the original vaccine or whether that is just an indication of how it works.

Leaflet revised 9/2021.

[9873210]

No seriously, it goes on to refer to a "Comirnarty concentrate for dispersion for injection COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)"
I don't know whether the reference to nucleoside modified indicates any change from the original vaccine or whether that is just an indication of how it works.

The latter.

"COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)" is a generic term for the technology used by both Pfizer and Moderna. The term was used in the EU approvals dated 29 Dec 2020 and probably much much earlier.

[Julian]

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the pfizer has been updated - I mean, updated and actually being given out already (not just in trials).

i was given a leaflet which gives the name "Comirnaty " and is dated 09/2021.

The leaflet states the active substance as "COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine"

I had my Pfizer booster about a week ago, and for what it's worth, at the top of my leaflet it says: "Please Do Not Leave Until 11.03".

No seriously, it goes on to refer to a "Comirnarty concentrate for dispersion for injection COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified)"
I don't know whether the reference to nucleoside modified indicates any change from the original vaccine or whether that is just an indication of how it works.

Leaflet revised 9/2021.

My usual disclaimer, I am not an expert, but I did read about this stuff a while back when I was first trying to understand at least at a superficial level how the various vaccines work. As I understand (and remember) it the "nucleoside modified" is a design feature of the original vaccine aimed at increasing the half-life of the mRNA delivered into the cell so that more spikes are produced than would be the case if non-modified mRNA was used. "Normal" mRNA can and is read and translated into the protein(s) it codes for multiple times in the host cell but it does degrade quite quickly so the mRNA in the Pfizer (and I think Moderna) vaccine has an altered chemical composition in order to make it more durable and able to be read more times before it degrades so that spike protein expression lasts longer than it otherwise would with RNA built with unmodified nucleosides. The actual RNA bases (G, U, A, C) are the same but the nucleosides being talked about here are larger molecules that are essentially the "scaffolding" stringing together those bases and it is at least some of those scaffolding molecules that have been modified to make the mRNA more durable. I believe (from a talk by Prof Shane Crotty on a lecture on the Medcram Youtube channel) that the duration of spike protein production for the Pfizer vaccine is about 36 hours and presumably would be much less were it not for the nucleoside modifications and that presumably would have led to a weaker immune response.

- Julian

[tjh290633]

I had my booster this morning, no documentation. It hadn't shown up on the NHS app 2 hours later. I suppose that Windows XP, or whatever, does take time.

TJH

[XFool]

I had my booster this morning, no documentation.

Really? No documentation at all? I had my booster at a community clinic - had all the same type of documentation as with the first two vaccinations. Including another little blue NHS card with date, vaccine type and batch no.

It hadn't shown up on the NHS app 2 hours later. I suppose that Windows XP, or whatever, does take time.

Although recorded as usual in the 'Immunisation' folder in my Patient Access account, a copy of the record had still not replaced the old vaccination record in the root of my PA account weeks later - as mentioned in an adjacent thread.

Apparently, from that thread, the NHS App wasn't designed with the Booster in mind and may have to be modified. Possibly when that is done the root record shown in PA account will be updated. This is what seemed to happen originally.

viewtopic.php?p=456592#p456592

[redsturgeon]

Just had my booster this morning, no documentation given.

Jhn

[swill453]

As far as I am aware, in Scotland no documentation is ever given when you get a (Covid) vaccination. I've certainly had none and neither have others I know.

The vaccination type is on my "vaccination passport", but I've never seen anything like batch numbers.

Scott.

[Dod101]

In my part of Scotland I had the Astrazeneca leaflet given to me when I had my initial vaccines in the early part of this year (both at my doctor's surgery) Then a few weeks ago I had my booster jab at a community clinic. It was Pfizer and again I was given a leaflet about it.

OTOH I know nothing of a 'vaccination passport'.

Dod

[Lootman]

I had my booster this morning, no documentation. It hadn't shown up on the NHS app 2 hours later. I suppose that Windows XP, or whatever, does take time.

TJH

Did you take your vaccination card with you? Did you ask them to update it?

[XFool]

...It required a new NHS card ("65+") as the original, like the NHS App, only provided for two doses.

[Lootman]

I had my booster this morning, no documentation. It hadn't shown up on the NHS app 2 hours later. I suppose that Windows XP, or whatever, does take time.

Did you take your vaccination card with you? Did you ask them to update it?

It requires a new NHS card ("65+") as the original, like the NHS App, only provided for two doses.

There are already a couple of countries saying that they won't accept evidence of any vaccination that is more than 6 months old. And since a foreign country has no obligation to accept or recognise an NHS app, then a paper record of any booster dose can be important. The online record is merely a "nice to have".

On the other hand, the US ignores any boosters and only cares about the original pair of doses. US ICE is also notorious for insisting on paper rather than something on a phone.

It's a complicated situation.

[9873210]

And since a foreign country has no obligation to accept or recognise an NHS app, then a paper record of any booster dose can be important. The online record is merely a "nice to have".

It's a complicated situation.

Of course a foreign country also has no obligation to accept or recognize or accept an NHS vaccination card. Some places require proof of vaccination to be secure and tied to a proof of identity.

As you say it's complicated and it's probably best to have both

[swill453]

In my part of Scotland I had the Astrazeneca leaflet given to me when I had my initial vaccines in the early part of this year (both at my doctor's surgery) Then a few weeks ago I had my booster jab at a community clinic. It was Pfizer and again I was given a leaflet about it.

OTOH I know nothing of a 'vaccination passport'.

So without learning about, and getting, the passport, you have no evidence of your vaccination.

But then most of us don't actually need proof.

Scott.

[Spet0789]

It’s the same mRNA vaccine as given before (Pfizer/Moderna). The ambulance driver was wrong.

[Dod101]

In my part of Scotland I had the Astrazeneca leaflet given to me when I had my initial vaccines in the early part of this year (both at my doctor's surgery) Then a few weeks ago I had my booster jab at a community clinic. It was Pfizer and again I was given a leaflet about it.

OTOH I know nothing of a 'vaccination passport'.

So without learning about, and getting, the passport, you have no evidence of your vaccination.

But then most of us don't actually need proof.

Scott.

That is true. I cannot see me being able to take my usual winter trip to the Far East early next year although if |I do manage it I will ask at my GP surgery how I get the evidence I may need. I expect them to help either by giving me the proof I may need or telling me how to get it. Sufficient unto the day and all that.

Dod