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Have you had covid yet?

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool

Have you had covid yet?

Yes confirmed by test
24
28%
No
48
56%
Maybe but not confirmed
14
16%
 
Total votes: 86

pje16
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487474

Postby pje16 » March 18th, 2022, 4:26 pm

absolutezero wrote:Do you know what the transmission probabilities are? Lower than you expect.

Call me old fashioned, but medical tests should be taken if (and only if) a positive diagnosis would lead to some form of medical treatment.
In the case of Covid, no treatment is given but you are told to stay at home instead. A pointless test. Though I never did get embroiled in Covid hysteria anyway.

If you thought there was a chance you had Covid then surely you would be staying home anyway.
Staying at home when ill has been something I have been doing for years.
Have you been "irresponsible" for the last 20 years by going out and about when ill and infecting people?


Total cases in the UK to date 20,093,762 that's quite a few

You said "you felt ill so probably" which i took to mean you have had but not tested yourself

Your old fashioned view perhaps needs an update
How do you know if you have and might need treatment unless you test
Or do you think you can tell if you have it

When I am ill, I take to my bed (as when you are asleep you don't feel sh*t)

Stay safe ;)

absolutezero
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487490

Postby absolutezero » March 18th, 2022, 5:02 pm

pje16 wrote:Total cases in the UK to date 20,093,762 that's quite a few

You said "you felt ill so probably" which i took to mean you have had but not tested yourself

Your old fashioned view perhaps needs an update
How do you know if you have and might need treatment unless you test
Or do you think you can tell if you have it

When I am ill, I take to my bed (as when you are asleep you don't feel sh*t)

Stay safe ;)

So that's around 50 million who either haven't had it or haven't tested. And how many of those are the same people multiple times - Starmer is up to 6 now, is he not?
So the odds of not having had it are still in my favour. Especially with my circumstances.
The (largely unscientific) poll on here shows 'no' to be well in the lead too.

How do I know I might need treatment? If I might have felt ill enough to seek out treatment!

Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't. You would seek medical attention if you had a worrisome symptom.

I don't need a test to tell me to seek treatment for a respiratory virus (this test doesn't lead to treatment anyway - they just say stay at home and have Lemsip)

I may have had it. I may not have had it.
Would knowing make me any better off or have affected the medical advice in any way?
No.

Mike4
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487492

Postby Mike4 » March 18th, 2022, 5:04 pm

pje16 wrote:Total cases in the UK to date 20,093,762 that's quite a few


It's also only the cases that have been positively identified, I suspect.

Dr Campbell occasionally says 97% of the population has covid antibodies now, so the chances are high that more than just 20m of us have had it.

He does also have a good ol' moan that covid-induced antibodies can be differentiated in testing from vaccine-induced, but those stats are never published. He wonders why not, and so do I.

pje16
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487493

Postby pje16 » March 18th, 2022, 5:06 pm

absolutezero wrote:
pje16 wrote:Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't. You would seek medical attention if you had a worrisome symptom.

I happen to have had a blood test every month for the past 16 months
dangerous to assume what you don't know about others :lol:
But I do agree with the rest

pje16
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487494

Postby pje16 » March 18th, 2022, 5:08 pm

Mike4 wrote:
pje16 wrote:Total cases in the UK to date 20,093,762 that's quite a few


It's also only the cases that have been positively identified, I suspect.

Dr Campbell occasionally says 97% of the population has covid antibodies now, so the chances are high that more than just 20m of us have had it.

He does also have a good ol' moan that covid-induced antibodies can be differentiated in testing from vaccine-induced, but those stats are never published. He wonders why not, and so do I.

I do enjoy his videos he has a good way of delivering, have only see a few thought
I listen weekly to Prof Tim Spector

Mike4
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487495

Postby Mike4 » March 18th, 2022, 5:10 pm

absolutezero wrote:Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't. You would seek medical attention if you had a worrisome symptom.


Can you catch cancer/TB/Parkinson's from someone who has these diseases asymptomatically then, like you can covid?

Failing to test is more akin to drunk driving. It's not just YOU testing is intended to protect, its to protect everyone else from you.

absolutezero
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487500

Postby absolutezero » March 18th, 2022, 5:32 pm

Mike4 wrote:
absolutezero wrote:Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't. You would seek medical attention if you had a worrisome symptom.


Can you catch cancer/TB/Parkinson's from someone who has these diseases asymptomatically then, like you can covid?

No. Though we do for HIV, which is transmissible - but the result of that test informs a treatment decision. You get anti-virals. It's not just a 'stay at home and have a Lemsip' test.
Failing to test is more akin to drunk driving. It's not just YOU testing is intended to protect, its to protect everyone else from you.

Quantify that risk. It's not non-zero, but what is it?
Yes. I do know by the way.

Now quantify that risk of spreading to/from people who have been vaccinated.

And then quantify the risk for someone in my particular circumstances.
(Works from home and has done since before it was popular, mixes with maybe 3 people, rarely goes out where other people will be - have you MET the general public?!)

Then quantify the risk for severe illness and death.
You may be surprised by the results.

jfgw
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487505

Postby jfgw » March 18th, 2022, 6:06 pm

pje16 wrote:Total cases in the UK to date 20,093,762 that's quite a few

There was much less testing in 2020, and LFTs were not made freely available until early last year. NHS PCR tests were not available to everyone (you had to have one of the classic symptoms or be pinged to be eligible). A significant proportion of infections have been very mild or asymptomatic.

8.3% of over-12s have not been vaccinated at all, yet there are only 3% of the population without antibodies.

I have stated before that I think I had Covid before the first lockdown. There were no tests and I have not been counted.

I would be surprised if the true figure were not considerably more than half of the population.

The highest numbers of recorded cases to date (based upon England government statistics) are among 10-14s, and the lowest are among the over-65 age groups and under-5s. This poll may not be representative of the UK population as a whole due to a non-representative age demographic. (This is an observation, not a criticism of the poll.)


Julian F. G. W.

simoan
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487510

Postby simoan » March 18th, 2022, 6:23 pm

"Maybe but not confirmed". I had all the symptoms and was knocked out for a week over New Year at the end of 2019. Of course, that does not match the supposed timescale for Covid arriving in the UK, and to my knowledge I did not pass it on to anyone else in my close circle of family and friends. It may not have been Covid that I had, but no-one has been able to tell me which other flu like illness causes you loss of taste and smell for 4-5 days. It was a first for me.

Had a narrow escape last week mind, having spent all Wednesday evening drinking and eating with a friend who tested positive last Saturday. Pretty certain he caught it visiting the old folks home looking after his father on the Tuesday so assume he was not infectious the day after as everyone else present subsequently tested negative.

All the best, Si

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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487528

Postby Newroad » March 18th, 2022, 7:36 pm

Hi AbsoluteZero.

You (predominantly) talk above about quantifying transmission risks above, which in and of itself is fair enough.

The issue though is that the risks are asymmetric - death being a potential outcome of the risk being realised end to end. You can argue the specific numbers (of Covid-19 attributable deaths) the UK has experienced, but in broad terms, we're probably somewhere in the 100K - 200K spectrum

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

So, to truly "quantify" this, you need to somehow put a value on death (and for that matter, Long Covid etc). Difficult to do, both morally and actually. Most people value (avoiding) death, both themselves, for loved ones and for others, fairly highly - hence the early responses of governments around the world once the potential gravity was understood. However, this is not a universal view.

Regards, Newroad

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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487532

Postby XFool » March 18th, 2022, 8:06 pm

absolutezero wrote:Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't.

Cancer and Parkinson's are infectious? One learns new things on here every day...

absolutezero wrote:I don't need a test to tell me to seek treatment for a respiratory virus (this test doesn't lead to treatment anyway - they just say stay at home and have Lemsip)

I may have had it. I may not have had it.
Would knowing make me any better off or have affected the medical advice in any way?
No.

I remember when I said hereabouts that IMO surprisingly many people didn't understand the meaning(!) of the word "infectious". They told me I was not making any sense. That everyone knew what "infectious" meant.

They were wrong! :roll:

AFAIK I have not had COVID to date (been to and from Heathrow today, so...). Indeed, what with the (past) lock-downs and social distancing I haven't had a cold for years.

So what's "a cold"?

dealtn
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487820

Postby dealtn » March 20th, 2022, 1:54 pm

XFool wrote:
absolutezero wrote:Do you have tests for cancer/TB/Parkinson's, just in case? You never know. You might need treatment.
Of course you don't.

Cancer and Parkinson's are infectious? One learns new things on here every day...

absolutezero wrote:I don't need a test to tell me to seek treatment for a respiratory virus (this test doesn't lead to treatment anyway - they just say stay at home and have Lemsip)

I may have had it. I may not have had it.
Would knowing make me any better off or have affected the medical advice in any way?
No.

I remember when I said hereabouts that IMO surprisingly many people didn't understand the meaning(!) of the word "infectious". They told me I was not making any sense. That everyone knew what "infectious" meant.

They were wrong! :roll:



The only one here that appears to not understand the meaning of infectious seems to be you.

Absolutezero made no claims that Cancer or Parkinson's were infectious. In fact his comments were about discovering whether treatment might be necessary, not about any risk of catching something or passing it on.

I think the (vast) majority of people understand the term infectious, and the majority of those act responsibly whenever they discover they have something it is better not to pass on, be that Covid or one of the hundreds of other infectious illnesses. Are you suggesting we should all be testing in a continuous fashion, even when having no symptoms, just so we can ensure none of us are unwittingly infectious and unintentionally aiding transmission? If so how do you suggest that happens? Should we be doing the same for all infectious diseases, or if solely for Covid, then why?

XFool
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487851

Postby XFool » March 20th, 2022, 3:56 pm

dealtn wrote:
XFool wrote:I remember when I said hereabouts that IMO surprisingly many people didn't understand the meaning(!) of the word "infectious". They told me I was not making any sense. That everyone knew what "infectious" meant.

They were wrong! :roll:

The only one here that appears to not understand the meaning of infectious seems to be you.

Absolutezero made no claims that Cancer or Parkinson's were infectious. In fact his comments were about discovering whether treatment might be necessary, not about any risk of catching something or passing it on.

Same as you were! :roll:

dealtn
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487948

Postby dealtn » March 20th, 2022, 11:02 pm

XFool wrote:
dealtn wrote:
XFool wrote:I remember when I said hereabouts that IMO surprisingly many people didn't understand the meaning(!) of the word "infectious". They told me I was not making any sense. That everyone knew what "infectious" meant.

They were wrong! :roll:

The only one here that appears to not understand the meaning of infectious seems to be you.

Absolutezero made no claims that Cancer or Parkinson's were infectious. In fact his comments were about discovering whether treatment might be necessary, not about any risk of catching something or passing it on.

Same as you were! :roll:


Sadly I agree. Most here understand the meaning of infectiousness, whilst a few seem to anchor themselves on constant repetition of the word without grasping that any illness being infectious is only a part of the bigger picture, and quite often isn't even the crux of what is being discussed.

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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487961

Postby XFool » March 21st, 2022, 12:50 am

dealtn wrote:Most here understand the meaning of infectiousness

I would assume that too. However there are always a few who clearly do have serious issues with fully grasping the concept and its ramifications. That is entirely evident - to those who can see it.

dealtn wrote:...whilst a few seem to anchor themselves on constant repetition of the word without grasping that any illness being infectious is only a part of the bigger picture, and quite often isn't even the crux of what is being discussed.

I quite agree that understanding "the crux of what is being discussed" can also prove to be an issue.

e.g. Such as understanding that, when it comes to the matter of LFT testing, "the crux of the matter" IS infection. What it is not about is individual medical "treatment". I would also point out that, when it comes to a global pandemic caused by an infectious pathogen, the "bigger picture" IS again the matter of infection - I mean, how could it be anything else?

The subject of this thread is a poll entitled: "Have you had covid yet?". The voting options being:

Yes confirmed by test

No

Maybe but not confirmed (presumbly no positive test)

MrFoolish
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487980

Postby MrFoolish » March 21st, 2022, 8:53 am

Mike4 wrote:I'm suspect I've had it given my strong reaction to my first vaccine.


Does it work like that? I only ask because I also had a strong flu-like reaction to my first vaccine (AZ).

Mike4
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#487996

Postby Mike4 » March 21st, 2022, 9:37 am

MrFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:I'm suspect I've had it given my strong reaction to my first vaccine.


Does it work like that? I only ask because I also had a strong flu-like reaction to my first vaccine (AZ).


Well its not my field of expertise but AIUI, the thinking it that the first vaccine just educates the immune system in a patient naïve to covid to the existence of covid, so it learns how to mount an attack on it next time covid is encountered. Then the second vaccine wakes up the immune system which launches the pre-learned attack. The attack is what makes you feel ill (fever etc is the body's method of attacking it).

So if you get a big reaction to the first vaccine, it is argued that the body must have already previously encountered covid and learned what to do, therefore you may well have been previously infected but not realised. Either asymptomatically or mistook it for a cold or flu.

dealtn
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#488002

Postby dealtn » March 21st, 2022, 9:54 am

XFool wrote: I would also point out that, when it comes to a global pandemic caused by an infectious pathogen, the "bigger picture" IS again the matter of infection - I mean, how could it be anything else?



On it's own that isn't the bigger picture - by definition - it's a narrow picture.

The bigger picture would include the outcome of that infection, the rules in place (or not) to limit the spread of that infection, the impact of those rules both medically and on society, treatments for infection, vaccinations against infection, etc.

Simply claiming it's infectious (and believing others don't realise that) misses a large part of what a global pathogen driven pandemic is about. The bigger picture if you like.

feder1
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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#488034

Postby feder1 » March 21st, 2022, 11:57 am

After a tickly throat started on Friday and feeling a bit off yesterday, I test positive today with the nose test.

We may have been near someone with it last week.

Partner is ok atm.

In better spirits today but have cancelled tennis and swimming.

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Re: Have you had covid yet?

#488038

Postby XFool » March 21st, 2022, 12:24 pm

dealtn wrote:
XFool wrote: I would also point out that, when it comes to a global pandemic caused by an infectious pathogen, the "bigger picture" IS again the matter of infection - I mean, how could it be anything else?

On it's own that isn't the bigger picture - by definition - it's a narrow picture.

The bigger picture would include the outcome of that infection, the rules in place (or not) to limit the spread of that infection, the impact of those rules both medically and on society, treatments for infection, vaccinations against infection, etc.

Simply claiming it's infectious (and believing others don't realise that) misses a large part of what a global pathogen driven pandemic is about. The bigger picture if you like.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/big-bigger-picture

the big/bigger picture

the most important facts about a situation and the effects of that situation on other things:

"In my political work I try to concentrate on the big picture and not be distracted by details."


But, as my initial post was wrt the details of a particular post above, this is anyway all pretty irrelevant noise.


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