The Lemon Fool

It seems that, despite recent infection figures showing infection rates at 1 in 40, up from 1 in 75 a few weeks earlier, the government has decided to stop issuing ONS stats. Why have they done this?

If the pandemic is officially over, why has there been no official announcement? I am still being cautious and find it helpful to have some idea of the risk out there. How can I assess that if there are no available statistics?

Can someone please clarify what is going on. Thanks

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ still seems to be alive and well, so to speak!

The plan has been "Living with COVID" for over a year now. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-living-with-covid-19

The spring booster jabs for "the most vulnerable" are soon to get underway. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65138237

According to the Zoe App, cases in my local borough (which peaked around 30k at the height of the pandemic) dropped into 3 figures about a month ago (7 hundred and something)
it gradually crept up and up and this morning it's over 26k
it is because of the vaccination that no-one seems to care anymore

What is the alternative? What else could we be doing now?
It is endemic, fortunately now it seems relatively mild.
What is the point of keeping it at the forefront of the news?

John

Agreed. The missus had it a couple of weeks ago (as reported here). Didnt go to the show she'd booked with her pals for that night and stayed 'careful' for the next few days (but didnt really change her routine). I probably had it too (but didnt test) and did pretty much the same

We'd have probably have done exactly the same if we had a bad cold/flu to be honest.

The stats etc are most certainly not being kept in the forefront of the news and I am not asking for that either. I just think that the ONS should publish the figures as they have been doing. In many areas the figures are very bad and would look even worse if testing was still being done on the scale it used to be. If it is now endemic, why was no official announcement made. We heard about everything else during the last three years. Suddenly nothing! I don’t think it is unreasonable to be told what is going on. Many are still dying or are seriously I’ll, and unlike the flu, many are suffering long Covid, so it is not just like flu!

The ONS date is just a google away.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... stinsights

as is the excellent and more current Zoe data.
https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data

What is the problem?

redsturgeon wrote:The ONS date is just a google away.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... stinsights

as is the excellent and more current Zoe data.
https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data

What is the problem?

Thanks for the links redsturgeon. The first link says that it will no longer be updated. It is that sort of thing that I am talking about. I am pleased we are moving to endemic, but when will be officially notified. I realise that most people have been doing what they like for ages, some even from day 1, but some of us actually are still concerned about both their own health and also that of others. That is the problem, since you ask. You may not care anymore, but many of us still do care, so maybe a little more tolerance of us would be a nice gesture.

Arizona11 wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:The ONS date is just a google away.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... stinsights

as is the excellent and more current Zoe data.
https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data

What is the problem?

Thanks for the links redsturgeon. The first link says that it will no longer be updated. It is that sort of thing that I am talking about. I am pleased we are moving to endemic, but when will be officially notified. I realise that most people have been doing what they like for ages, some even from day 1, but some of us actually are still concerned about both their own health and also that of others. That is the problem, since you ask. You may not care anymore, but many of us still do care, so maybe a little more tolerance of us would be a nice gesture.

I am sorry if I am coming across as not tolerant, that is not my intent. I am genuinely interested to know what else you need to know from the government and what you will do differently once you hear from them.

On the one hand we seem to have the people who distrust anything the government or any official body says about covid, while you seem to be at the other end of the spectrum and are waiting for more government advice and information that seems to be unforthcoming.

John

https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data#interactive-map

Oops! I appear to be in a hot spot.

Arizona11 wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:The ONS date is just a google away.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... stinsights

as is the excellent and more current Zoe data.
https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data

What is the problem?

Thanks for the links redsturgeon. The first link says that it will no longer be updated. It is that sort of thing that I am talking about.

Ok, but as already pointed out, https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/, "The official UK government website for data and insights on coronavirus (COVID-19)" is still up and running, so the data is out there....

Thanks for all the replies and the links. The government one showing the stats is very useful and I will use that in future. When the ONS one stopped updating last month I did not see any link so I could continue to keep up. That would have been useful.

I have been asked what I will do differently if I have the info I require. The answer is I am trying to do more things and my confidence level will be higher if I know roughly the level of risk. Yes, I am no doubt overplaying the risk level, however, having lost two family members to Covid, you can understand my reticence.

Regarding my opinion of the government, I thought they did a great job to start with and no doubt saved many lives with very little experience to go on. Unfortunately, just as Delta was at its worst level, the government decided to lift all restrictions (if not now, when?). Well, certainly not then! It was then that I lost all faith and even now, the ONS decides to stop issuing stats just when the infection rate for England goes from 1 in 70 to 1 in 40. You can see why I feel as I do.

I realise that things are miles better and I am fully jabbed, however, having gone so long Covid free, I would like to remain so and especially want to protect others who may unknowingly be vulnerable. It is all our responsibility to care about others but I have witnessed very little care so far.

redsturgeon wrote:

Arizona11 wrote:
Thanks for the links redsturgeon. The first link says that it will no longer be updated. It is that sort of thing that I am talking about. I am pleased we are moving to endemic, but when will be officially notified. I realise that most people have been doing what they like for ages, some even from day 1, but some of us actually are still concerned about both their own health and also that of others. That is the problem, since you ask. You may not care anymore, but many of us still do care, so maybe a little more tolerance of us would be a nice gesture.

I am sorry if I am coming across as not tolerant, that is not my intent. I am genuinely interested to know what else you need to know from the government and what you will do differently once you hear from them.

On the one hand we seem to have the people who distrust anything the government or any official body says about covid, while you seem to be at the other end of the spectrum and are waiting for more government advice and information that seems to be unforthcoming.

John

I think this might be to misunderstand Arizona11's beef, and certainly mine. It strikes me that government policy has switched from being dead concerned about Covid to "Couldn't give a stuff about it and you're all on your own now", but they haven't told us. It's the failure of the government to openly communicate this change of policy that rankles.

Arizona11 wrote:The stats etc are most certainly not being kept in the forefront of the news and I am not asking for that either. I just think that the ONS should publish the figures as they have been doing. In many areas the figures are very bad and would look even worse if testing was still being done on the scale it used to be. If it is now endemic, why was no official announcement made. We heard about everything else during the last three years. Suddenly nothing! I don’t think it is unreasonable to be told what is going on. Many are still dying or are seriously I’ll, and unlike the flu, many are suffering long Covid, so it is not just like flu!

Why do you need to be told what is going on? If you have had all of your vaccines where is the issue?

We have wasted far too much current and future resources on our overreaction to Covid. The £400bn wasted and £20bn+ a year cost of financing this debt can never be unspent. The consequences from our short term overreaction will lead to more suffering and many more deaths in the long term because the money is no longer there for health or social care. If you are of the age where you are statistically more likely to need medical care i.e. retired, you are likely to have at least a decade of poorer healthcare outcomes eg long waits for an ambulance if you have a stroke or heart attack!

No one yet knows the cost from the damage to children's education. We still have 100,000 children who have not returned to education since they closed the schools. That is 100k lives damaged in the long term, as well as whatever knock-on societal effects this has. What is the mental health like of these children? Who is there to check they are not being abused or are malnourished?

Then there is the mental health of adults. There are still many displaying signs of damaged mental health from the fear spread by the government and medical community. There are many that are at an age where they have wasted the remaining active years of their life hiding behind their front door. What a waste of our short time on this planet!

Ashfordian wrote:

Arizona11 wrote:The stats etc are most certainly not being kept in the forefront of the news and I am not asking for that either. I just think that the ONS should publish the figures as they have been doing. In many areas the figures are very bad and would look even worse if testing was still being done on the scale it used to be. If it is now endemic, why was no official announcement made. We heard about everything else during the last three years. Suddenly nothing! I don’t think it is unreasonable to be told what is going on. Many are still dying or are seriously I’ll, and unlike the flu, many are suffering long Covid, so it is not just like flu!

Why do you need to be told what is going on? If you have had all of your vaccines where is the issue?

We have wasted far too much current and future resources on our overreaction to Covid. The £400bn wasted and £20bn+ a year cost of financing this debt can never be unspent. The consequences from our short term overreaction will lead to more suffering and many more deaths in the long term because the money is no longer there for health or social care. If you are of the age where you are statistically more likely to need medical care i.e. retired, you are likely to have at least a decade of poorer healthcare outcomes eg long waits for an ambulance if you have a stroke or heart attack!

No one yet knows the cost from the damage to children's education. We still have 100,000 children who have not returned to education since they closed the schools. That is 100k lives damaged in the long term, as well as whatever knock-on societal effects this has. What is the mental health like of these children? Who is there to check they are not being abused or are malnourished?

Then there is the mental health of adults. There are still many displaying signs of damaged mental health from the fear spread by the government and medical community. There are many that are at an age where they have wasted the remaining active years of their life hiding behind their front door. What a waste of our short time on this planet!

My own fear is the pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme and government will be doing nothing to mitigate the next wave of Covid.

Mike4 wrote:My own fear is the pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme and government will be doing nothing to mitigate the next wave of Covid.

How could anyone claim to know that there will never be another wave? That is surely impossible to be certain about. So do we live in fear forever? Or accept the fact that, aside perhaps for China, there is a global consensus that Covid is now relegated to the status of something like the flu?

Lootman wrote:

Mike4 wrote:My own fear is the pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme and government will be doing nothing to mitigate the next wave of Covid.

How could anyone claim to know that there will never be another wave? That is surely impossible to be certain about. So do we live in fear forever? Or accept the fact that, aside perhaps for China, there is a global consensus that Covid is now relegated to the status of something like the flu?

You are obviously not suffering from Long Covid.

Mike4 wrote:

Lootman wrote:How could anyone claim to know that there will never be another wave? That is surely impossible to be certain about. So do we live in fear forever? Or accept the fact that, aside perhaps for China, there is a global consensus that Covid is now relegated to the status of something like the flu?

You are obviously not suffering from Long Covid.

Correct, what proportion of the population are?

Or perhaps the better question is what proportion will get that in the future with no policy change?

Mike4 wrote:My own fear is the pendulum has now swung to the opposite extreme and government will be doing nothing to mitigate the next wave of Covid.

This is a lack of understanding around Covid, probably based on intentionally poor communication because this topic is not front page, scaremongering, news worthy story.

Covid is no longer a novel virus that it was in 2020. As stated previously on this thread it is now endemic and is, and always will be in circulation in humans. Prior to 2020, there were four HCoV's (human coronaviruses) that were part of the viruses that give humans around 15-20% of the colds we have. There are now five HCoV's in circulation that give us coughs and colds.

So every winter another "wave" will occur but this will just be part of the normal winter viruses that circulate. Every few years we may end up with a cough or a cold from this HCoV.

However I do think you have a point, not regarding Covid, but future pandemics. As time goes on and as more of the population wakes up and accepts that we overreacted and hugely overspent on the Covid pandemic, it is likely we will not treat future pandemics with the respect they deserve. It will be much harder to fool the country with fear a second time. That is if the country can afford to implement mitigations. This is just another long term consequence from our short term overreaction to Covid.

Ashfordian wrote:However I do think you have a point, not regarding Covid, but future pandemics. As time goes on and as more of the population wakes up and accepts that we overreacted and hugely overspent on the Covid pandemic, it is likely we will not treat future pandemics with the respect they deserve. It will be much harder to fool the country with fear a second time. That is if the country can afford to implement mitigations. This is just another long term consequence from our short term overreaction to Covid.

With regard to the next time, I just can't help ideally wondering how long it will take, next time, for all the history re-writers to get going.

(I'm also reminded of my old: "Is my car safe?" scenario - but I won't bore you with that again here!)