Covid vacs cut back for under 65s

[mc2fool]

I would happily have a covid vaccination but I'm not eligible. I'm not a long way from 65 and with mild asthma, high BMI (but not >40) and on some medication for blood pressure, I would like one, but don't qualify.

I remember the phone call I had with my GP at the beginning of Covid and it still scares me, "Mr Clariman, we've seen a lot of overweight men of your age seriously ill with this Covid, so you should exercise extreme caution."

I had it a few times and was not seriously ill but that may have been thanks to recent vaccinations.

Maybe I'm feeling sorry for myself. I had a virus last week, recovered from it, and went down with another virus 4 days later. Perhaps age is making me more vulnerable.

Ask your GP for it. The over-65s bit is for those that will be automatically invited for a jab, but your GP can get one for you anyway, if you can convince them it'd be a good idea for you.

[servodude]

I would happily have a covid vaccination but I'm not eligible. I'm not a long way from 65 and with mild asthma, high BMI (but not >40) and on some medication for blood pressure, I would like one, but don't qualify.

I remember the phone call I had with my GP at the beginning of Covid and it still scares me, "Mr Clariman, we've seen a lot of overweight men of your age seriously ill with this Covid, so you should exercise extreme caution."

I had it a few times and was not seriously ill but that may have been thanks to recent vaccinations.

Maybe I'm feeling sorry for myself. I had a virus last week, recovered from it, and went down with another virus 4 days later. Perhaps age is making me more vulnerable.

Ask your GP for it. The over-65s bit is for those that will be automatically invited for a jab, but your GP can get one for you anyway, if you can convince them it'd be a good idea for you.

I was about to say the same; they should understand that peace of mind goes a long way towards keeping you in good health.

[Ashfordian]

I would happily have a covid vaccination but I'm not eligible. I'm not a long way from 65 and with mild asthma, high BMI (but not >40) and on some medication for blood pressure, I would like one, but don't qualify.

I remember the phone call I had with my GP at the beginning of Covid and it still scares me, "Mr Clariman, we've seen a lot of overweight men of your age seriously ill with this Covid, so you should exercise extreme caution."

I had it a few times and was not seriously ill but that may have been thanks to recent vaccinations.

Maybe I'm feeling sorry for myself. I had a virus last week, recovered from it, and went down with another virus 4 days later. Perhaps age is making me more vulnerable.

If that conversation with the GP scared you so much why is your BMI still so high? It's 3.5 years since the start of Covid!

As you state it has been known from the start that high BMI massively increases your risk when you catch Covid (and you can expect to catch it a few more times). Getting your BMI nearer to 25 is likely to do more than any Covid vaccination can, as well improving others aspects of your health.

This is one of the biggest failures from this pandemic, that we still have millions of people who ignore the importance of taking responsibility for their health!

[Clariman]

If that conversation with the GP scared you so much why is your BMI still so high? It's 3.5 years since the start of Covid!

As you state it has been known from the start that high BMI massively increases your risk when you catch Covid (and you can expect to catch it a few more times). Getting your BMI nearer to 25 is likely to do more than any Covid vaccination can, as well improving others aspects of your health.

You ask a fair question and make a fair point. My answer is that if it were easy to change habits of a lifetime and make a permanent change to one's weight, then there would be no obesity. It is really hard.

This is one of the biggest failures from this pandemic, that we still have millions of people who ignore the importance of taking responsibility for their health!

Who is doing that? I alone am responsible for my weight. I think some of the issues I have with food and eating have carried over from when I was a child, but I am an adult now, so the responsibility is mine. I have never "ignored it", not least since Covid. However, making a significant impact on it in the short term is impossible, making a temporary difference in the medium term is do-able, making a permanent difference in the long term (which is what is needed) is incredibly difficult - and being judged by others doesn't make it any easier.

C

[Mike4]

Personally I am more concerned about a wasp bite. I was doing some weeding in my garden last Friday evening and I clearly disturbed a wasp or three. Got a sharp bite on my upper arm and it swelled, got hot and itched like nothing on earth. Saturday it was uncomfortable and on Sunday was worse so wasted hours trying to get hold of NHS24. Only now is it calming down but I feel nervous about resuming my weeding!

Dod

Pretty sure wasps don't bite us!

(Edit to try to add the quote. What have I done wrong?! )

[daveh]

Personally I am more concerned about a wasp bite. I was doing some weeding in my garden last Friday evening and I clearly disturbed a wasp or three. Got a sharp bite on my upper arm and it swelled, got hot and itched like nothing on earth. Saturday it was uncomfortable and on Sunday was worse so wasted hours trying to get hold of NHS24. Only now is it calming down but I feel nervous about resuming my weeding!

Dod

Pretty sure wasps don't bite us!

(Edit to try to add the quote. What have I done wrong?! )

I react to wasp stings by swelling and pain at the site of the sting. A antihistamine cream applied promptly helps, or oral antihistamines taken as per the instructions. Both should be available OTC in the chemists.

[Mike4]

Pretty sure wasps don't bite us!

(Edit to try to add the quote. What have I done wrong?! )

I react to wasp stings by swelling and pain at the site of the sting. A antihistamine cream applied promptly helps, or oral antihistamines taken as per the instructions. Both should be available OTC in the chemists.

Interestingly, and getting back on topic(ish), My GP, or rather a prescribing pharmacist there, reckons there is evidence antihistamines have been shown to help with long covid, and prescribed me some for persistent fatigue. Along with a stomach acid reducer. All very odd.

[Dod101]

Pretty sure wasps don't bite us!

(Edit to try to add the quote. What have I done wrong?! )

I react to wasp stings by swelling and pain at the site of the sting. A antihistamine cream applied promptly helps, or oral antihistamines taken as per the instructions. Both should be available OTC in the chemists.

That is exactly my experience. I got some tablets OTC from Boots. They appear to be helping.

Sorry for the digression.

Dod

[servodude]

I react to wasp stings by swelling and pain at the site of the sting. A antihistamine cream applied promptly helps, or oral antihistamines taken as per the instructions. Both should be available OTC in the chemists.

That is exactly my experience. I got some tablets OTC from Boots. They appear to be helping.

Sorry for the digression.

Dod

They can be nasty if you're unlucky (they used to kill a handful of folk a year in the UK via "toxic shock") so just keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't turn - normally I'll be able to ignore it after a couple of hours
I've had two nasty stings - standing on one that crawled in the tenement door as I got out the shower gave me an excuse not to wear a shoe for a week, and the other got me in the mouth after hiding in a drink can.
My younger kid was taken to hospital aged 7 after being stung about a dozen times in the neck and head after a byke was disturbed at her primary school - they're warned to leave the spiders in peace, but the yellowjackets are grumpy when disturbed

[servodude]

I react to wasp stings by swelling and pain at the site of the sting. A antihistamine cream applied promptly helps, or oral antihistamines taken as per the instructions. Both should be available OTC in the chemists.

Interestingly, and getting back on topic(ish), My GP, or rather a prescribing pharmacist there, reckons there is evidence antihistamines have been shown to help with long covid, and prescribed me some for persistent fatigue. Along with a stomach acid reducer. All very odd.

Interesting. Do you mind telling us which antihistamine?
I've been popping them since a teen due to hayfever stuff - and it's taken me ages to work out when to and when not to
But I'm pretty aware of which ones work for which reaction (in me) - I'd say most can induce a degree of drowsiness while active
- but that can be countered by the fact they can improve sleep

If I pick the wrong one (by mistaking a cold for hayfever) I'm rooted

[Mike4]

Interestingly, and getting back on topic(ish), My GP, or rather a prescribing pharmacist there, reckons there is evidence antihistamines have been shown to help with long covid, and prescribed me some for persistent fatigue. Along with a stomach acid reducer. All very odd.

Interesting. Do you mind telling us which antihistamine?
I've been popping them since a teen due to hayfever stuff - and it's taken me ages to work out when to and when not to
But I'm pretty aware of which ones work for which reaction (in me) - I'd say most can induce a degree of drowsiness while active
- but that can be countered by the fact they can improve sleep

If I pick the wrong one (by mistaking a cold for hayfever) I'm rooted

Fexofenadine Hydrochloride. I thought the same as you (that they'd make it worse) but there must be evidence they help with overwhelming daytime fatigue, which seemed to start some weeks after recovering from mild covid. It's not really fatigue as such, rather an almost irresistible need to fall properly asleep for an hour or two. Can happen any time of day. Really quite debilitating. Good thing I'm semi-retired.

[Clariman]

You ask a fair question and make a fair point. My answer is that if it were easy to change habits of a lifetime and make a permanent change to one's weight, then there would be no obesity. It is really hard.

Who is doing that? I alone am responsible for my weight. I think some of the issues I have with food and eating have carried over from when I was a child, but I am an adult now, so the responsibility is mine. I have never "ignored it", not least since Covid. However, making a significant impact on it in the short term is impossible, making a temporary difference in the medium term is do-able, making a permanent difference in the long term (which is what is needed) is incredibly difficult - and being judged by others doesn't make it any easier.

C

This board would judge someone who isn't vaccinated.

This board would judge someone if they had Covid and left their home for work or social reasons.

This board would have judged someone who didn't wear a mask in 2020/21 (those on the extreme end still judge those not wearing a masks today!)

This means that the millions of selfish/feckless/lazy people who are obese or overweight will also be judged because of the extreme measures that were introduced to lower their risk of catching Covid, when they have not made any long term changes to their lifestyle(s) to decrease their risk when they catch Covid.

Someone has reported your post - not me - and probably quite rightly. If another Mod sees fit to delete it as a personal attack then I have no problem with that decision. I am equally happy with it being left in place, because it says more about the author of the comment than it says about the decent people who live a life-long struggle with their weight. Equating "overweight/obese" with being "lazy, selfish or feckless" is in itself a "lazy" and often repeated trope that isn't helpful to anyone.

Why should others be expected to restrict their lifestyles going forward when a certain cohort of society don't make their own sacrifices?

Have I asked you to restrict or change your lifestyle? No. How ironic, then, that you are demanding that I and millions of others change ours. As I said, I think this all says more about the author than the important issues at the heart of it.

Best wishes
Clariman

Moderator Message:
I have seen the report (prior to seeing this post) and i have deleted the original post as well as a couple of posts responding to it.

I will leave this post as I think it makes a good point.

However, further discussion of the deleted post will be off-topic in my view and likely to be deleted. (chas49)

[redsturgeon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... r-shot-faq

Seems like the CDC is recommending the latest shots for anyone above 6 months. Not sure I agree with that.

John

[redsturgeon]

I keep looking at the rationale behind the current vaccine programme.

This is what the government website gives us.

https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/08 ... %20booster.

People who received an autumn booster vaccine last year were around 53% less likely to go to the hospital with Covid in the two to four weeks after getting vaccinated, compared to those who didn't get a booster.

"two to four weeks", that is a surprisingly short window of protection. I would be interested to find longer term data.

[Julian]

I found this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdXwIAt7214 - quite interesting in the more general context of booster jabs and it specifically addresses John's post below.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/16/new-covid-vaccine-booster-shot-faq

Seems like the CDC is recommending the latest shots for anyone above 6 months. Not sure I agree with that.

John

The video is a virologist from Columbia University who runs a pretty well known YouTube channel (TWIV) interviewing Dr Paul Offit who is a vaccine specialist. He is one of about 20 experts on the FDA's vaccine advisory board, is a member of the NIH working group on vaccines and was previously also on the CDC advisory committee for immunisation practices so he is pretty credible in my opinion. Even amongst experts different viewpoints and opinions are available but I would say that his is at least one of the better-informed views/opinions.

The video is US-related (although the UK is name-checked in the first couple of minutes). It discusses the rationale for the everyone-over-6-months recommendation in the US and then goes on to discuss more general issues such as risk factors, hybrid immunity, vaccine effectiveness against long Covid (very little data - only 1 study from Italy) and the difference between Covid and Flu (Offit also advises the FDA on flu-related stuff each year).

- Julian

[redsturgeon]

I found this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdXwIAt7214 - quite interesting in the more general context of booster jabs and it specifically addresses John's post below.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/16/new-covid-vaccine-booster-shot-faq

Seems like the CDC is recommending the latest shots for anyone above 6 months. Not sure I agree with that.

John

The video is a virologist from Columbia University who runs a pretty well known YouTube channel (TWIV) interviewing Dr Paul Offit who is a vaccine specialist. He is one of about 20 experts on the FDA's vaccine advisory board, is a member of the NIH working group on vaccines and was previously also on the CDC advisory committee for immunisation practices so he is pretty credible in my opinion. Even amongst experts different viewpoints and opinions are available but I would say that his is at least one of the better-informed views/opinions.

The video is US-related (although the UK is name-checked in the first couple of minutes). It discusses the rationale for the everyone-over-6-months recommendation in the US and then goes on to discuss more general issues such as risk factors, hybrid immunity, vaccine effectiveness against long Covid (very little data - only 1 study from Italy) and the difference between Covid and Flu (Offit also advises the FDA on flu-related stuff each year).

- Julian

Thanks for that Julian, very interesting video trying to clarify the whole topic but reading the comments it seems that it is not straightforward.

Interesting to note, something that I had picked up elsewhere today. that the 6 month to 4 year old age group is one that is significantly at more risk than most others. Not sure sure that message is getting out in the UK from the NHS.

John

[jaizan]

The age limits for vaccine boosters currently are:
UK: 65
Germany: 60
USA: 12

I believe all 3 countries have independent bodies making these recommendations. I'm pretty confident in the UK one, having watched some of their announcements.
I believe the UK limit was set at 50 in 2022, as the evidence showed under 50s had more issues with boosters than without. That's presumably after retaining some level of resistance from their original vaccines. I guess 65 is now deemed optimum.

Has anyone seen a sensible & reputable article which explains why the USA has made such a different decision ? (I'm not interested in fake news)

I'm in my mid 50s and currently have my first Covid infection. It was like a moderate to bad cold for 2 days. By day 3, I was fit enough to do some gardening. On day 4, I feel fine, except for a light sniffle.

[ukmtk]

It seems that if you are not eligible for a Covid vaccination this spring you can actually buy one at certain pharmacies. I recently booked one for myself.
Saw it in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/pharmacies-in-england-and-scotland-to-offer-private-covid-jabs-for-45

[Lootman]

The age limits for vaccine boosters currently are:
UK: 65
Germany: 60
USA: 12

I believe all 3 countries have independent bodies making these recommendations. I'm pretty confident in the UK one, having watched some of their announcements.
I believe the UK limit was set at 50 in 2022, as the evidence showed under 50s had more issues with boosters than without. That's presumably after retaining some level of resistance from their original vaccines. I guess 65 is now deemed optimum.

Has anyone seen a sensible & reputable article which explains why the USA has made such a different decision ?

My understanding of the current US situation is that any adult can get a booster jab but that it is no longer free. And since the US government is no longer footing the bill, it makes no sense to have a minimum age. If you or your insurance can pay for a jab, then you can get one. I believe it costs about $140 a shot.

I do not know if under 65s can get a jab privately in the UK in the same way, but if I were still under age 65 then that is what I would do.

[Gerry557]

No you can't get a covid jab under 65. There are some exemptions listed on the NHS website.