Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[tikunetih]

We have a "Panny" and it makes some things well. Pizza base for example.

The one thing it is useless at is making a decent loaf of bread!

How queer - ours work flawlessly. A basic loaf recipe is to use approx 1.33 flour:liquid weight ratio, where liquid=water+oil, with oil (olive, rapeseed) = ~15g. About 3/4 measured teaspoon of yeast powder does the trick. ~1 teaspoon salt. Program choice would be any of white, wholemeal, speciality, french.

I prefer smaller, less tall, loaves, so commonly for example use 350g flour:265g liquid (250 water+ 15g oil), or use 300g flour:227g liquid.

Flour used is mainly white, sometimes but not usually extra strong, with rye + wholemeal in varying amounts, perhaps up to 1/4-1/3 of the total (rye doesn't rise well so need to go easy with it).

Seeds are often added, usually just the smaller ones that go straight into the pan (not the dispenser), but also sometimes use the dispenser and if so select the appropriate program.

This method works pretty much flawlessly, with never a failed loaf.

[tjh290633]

Not sure if air travel is a good proxy for how seriously a country is taking any kind of lockdown, but the number of flights over the US compared to Europe (where admittedly it's night time), or elsewhere (like Dubai which has closed its major hub) is startling: https://www.flightradar24.com/

We are under the Gatwick holding pattern, usually occupied by up to 4 aircraft when I take my morning walk. There have been no aircraft circling for several days now, as they are going straight in. In fact, this morning I heard just one aircraft. I haven't looked at flightradar24, because I usually use that to see where they are coming from, and they have been noticeable by their absence.

TJH

[Bouleversee]

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival? I know it is regarded as a one-off jab but I understand that in some cases a second vaccination is given to at-risk patients if a long time has elapsed since the first, subject to a test of the residual antibody level. DAK how long it takes to get a result of such a test? I have read that people with the virus often die of pneumonia and I wonder whether they have not had the pneumococcal jab, whether they did at 65 but its effectiveness has worn off, or whether any of them had been re-vaccinated but it made no difference. possibly because there was already scarring in the lungs at the time of infection. Are there any doctors on here who would know the answers or, like the GP I spoke to about having a top up, do they just leave all that to the nurses. It occurs to me that whereas a one-off at 65 might have been OK in earlier years, now we are in general living longer, that may no longer be the case.

Harking back to the discussion as to why some people including the young are killed and others get off lightly, as has been stated earlier much depends on the state of the immune system which is affected by the shrinkage of the thymus gland and reduced ability to absorb Vitamin D (which we should all take in the winter) as we get older, exercise and stress. I can't help thinking it would save an awful lot of money and lives if such things were monitored from time to time. A private Vitamin test only costs £29.

[supremetwo]

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival? I know it is regarded as a one-off jab but I understand that in some cases a second vaccination is given to at-risk patients if a long time has elapsed since the first, subject to a test of the residual antibody level. DAK how long it takes to get a result of such a test? I have read that people with the virus often die of pneumonia and I wonder whether they have not had the pneumococcal jab, whether they did at 65 but its effectiveness has worn off, or whether any of them had been re-vaccinated but it made no difference. possibly because there was already scarring in the lungs at the time of infection. Are there any doctors on here who would know the answers or, like the GP I spoke to about having a top up, do they just leave all that to the nurses. It occurs to me that whereas a one-off at 65 might have been OK in earlier years, now we are in general living longer, that may no longer be the case.

Harking back to the discussion as to why some people including the young are killed and others get off lightly, as has been stated earlier much depends on the state of the immune system which is affected by the shrinkage of the thymus gland and reduced ability to absorb Vitamin D (which we should all take in the winter) as we get older, exercise and stress. I can't help thinking it would save an awful lot of money and lives if such things were monitored from time to time. A private Vitamin test only costs £29.

This was discussed here:-
viewtopic.php?p=287291#p287291

[redsturgeon]

I find it interesting that the UK is specifying they need 25000 ventilators while NewYork alone in the US is saying they need 30000. Seems to be some disparity there. Has anyone any ideas why the difference?

John

[DrFfybes]

OK I know lots of stuff is in short supply at the supermarkets but I'm having real trouble finding any bread. Doesn't seem to be any around.
Is this due to a genuine shortage at the producers, supply chain issues, or people bulk/panic buying
If the latter surely it's going to go stale unless frozen, and you can't fit many loaves into a freezer
When will people reach 'peak bread' and allow the shelves to fill up again? I only want one poxy loaf.

I suspect this is area dependant. Yesterday (Weds) morning we were finally running out of stuff as that is our (OK, my) weekly shopping day.

I went to Morissons about 9:15, parked at the far end of the car park where people were parking every other space, marvelled at how cheap petrol was, and joined the well spaced queue, where I suggested to the chap behind that pushing the trolley then adjusting his mask and glasses 4 times in 2 minutes is more dangerous than not wearing it at all.

They were limiting customer numbers, one out, one in, but in the foyer was a huge pile of veg reduced to 15p or so, plentiful supplies of pretty much everything except sweets/chocolate, short on soap, contraceptives, and pregnancy test kits, but tinned and jar goods, rice, pasta, even flour was back in stock. Huge reduced Fish section, freezers full. There were as many "home delivery pickers" in the aisle than there were customers, and I enquired about work nd they said they had 90 inductions that day.

We may be lucky here as there are very few Morissons in the Exeter area but a huge distribution centre an hour up the M5.

Mr Bill End (36) said to the local paper "This is outrageous, everyone on Facebook was saying we'd all starve by Easter, so went and bought loads of stuff to make sure nobody else had something I didn't. Now I have a garage full of a thousand of quids worth of stuff I don't want, although I've already used 100 loo rolls up as the 40 poundland buckets I filled with fuel before they dropped the price by 10% are starting to leak."

Oddly MrsF said to get loo rolls if they had some. I poointed out we bought 2 packs the other week when they were on deal and still had 17 rolls spare (plus the ones in use). There was some discussion about whether this was "panic buying", but as I was the one doing the shopping she can use the bloody bidet for the first time since it was fitted 11 years ago if we run out.

Paul

[Bouleversee]

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival? I know it is regarded as a one-off jab but I understand that in some cases a second vaccination is given to at-risk patients if a long time has elapsed since the first, subject to a test of the residual antibody level. DAK how long it takes to get a result of such a test? I have read that people with the virus often die of pneumonia and I wonder whether they have not had the pneumococcal jab, whether they did at 65 but its effectiveness has worn off, or whether any of them had been re-vaccinated but it made no difference. possibly because there was already scarring in the lungs at the time of infection. Are there any doctors on here who wouldk know the answers or, like the GP I spoke to about having a top up, do they just leave all that to the nurses. It occurs to me that whereas a one-off at 65 might have been OK in earlier years, now we are in general living longer, that may no longer be the case.

Harking back to the discussion as to why some people including the young are killed and others get off lightly, as has been stated earlier much depends on the state of the immune system which is affected by the shrinkage of the thymus gland and reduced ability to absorb Vitamin D (which we should all take in the winter) as we get older, exercise and stress. I can't help thinking it would save an awful lot of money and lives if such things were monitored from time to time. A private Vitamin test only costs £29.

This was discussed here:-
viewtopic.php?p=287291#p287291

I am not allowed access to that board, according to the message that came up when I clicked on your link. No idea why.

[Watis]

Is this the occasion to suggest you buy a breadmaker?

And have fresh bread on tap whenever you want it.

Watis

I've had a breadmaker for 30 years and have never looked back!

We have a "Panny" and it makes some things well. Pizza base for example.

The one thing it is useless at is making a decent loaf of bread! Do you have a favourite recipe which guarantees as good a loaf as a Hovis Granary for example.

I'll ask Mrs H to try it out. And to stay on topic - we'll call it our Coronahovis recipe

regards

Howard

Mine's a Panny too - they are still the best, afaik.

I've tried various bread flours but the best - by far - is 'Canadian extra strong bread flour' which is only available in Waitrose. It does cost more - a lot more - than other bread flours but it makes divine bread. White, wholemeal and other versions are available. I haven't used anything else for years.

HTH,

Watis

(no connection to Waitrose)

[DrFfybes]

A couple of others things for more recent posts.
Re : aircraft use.
I have a couple of friend with a Son who works for Fedex Stanstead and Sister who work for BA Cargo - they are so massively busy to the extent that there are some passenger aircraft being flown empty apart from the cargo hold.

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival?

For some reason I don't have permission to access the thread ths was linked to, but my 2p worth...
There would be no cross protection, as a vaccine is specific to the infective organism, in this case a bacterium rather than a virus. Even vaccines against other viruses would have no impact (probably, otherwise people already exposed to these would be immune to Covid-19). However ANY protection against a co-infection (be it MMR, seasonal flu, pneumonia, etc) would obviously help.

If you take the pneumonia or flu vaccine now then your immune system would be reacting. I honestly don't know if it would help if you then contracted Covid-19 as your immune system would already be stimulated, or hinder as it would already be focussed elsewhere. MMR is a polyvalent vaccine that elicits different responses, so someone (apart from Andrew Wakefield!) will have looked into it.

Paul

[oldapple]

DrFfybes and others, thanks for taking time to answer so many queries. I'm not sure if this one has been answered already so apologies if it has. If this virus keeps mutating, will a vaccine developed now be effective a year down the line? Many thanks.

[Bouleversee]

A couple of others things for more recent posts.
Re : aircraft use.
I have a couple of friend with a Son who works for Fedex Stanstead and Sister who work for BA Cargo - they are so massively busy to the extent that there are some passenger aircraft being flown empty apart from the cargo hold.

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival?

For some reason I don't have permission to access the thread ths was linked to, but my 2p worth...
There would be no cross protection, as a vaccine is specific to the infective organism, in this case a bacterium rather than a virus. Even vaccines against other viruses would have no impact (probably, otherwise people already exposed to these would be immune to Covid-19). However ANY protection against a co-infection (be it MMR, seasonal flu, pneumonia, etc) would obviously help.

If you take the pneumonia or flu vaccine now then your immune system would be reacting. I honestly don't know if it would help if you then contracted Covid-19 as your immune system would already be stimulated, or hinder as it would already be focussed elsewhere. MMR is a polyvalent vaccine that elicits different responses, so someone (apart from Andrew Wakefield!) will have looked into it.

Paul

/
Thanks. I am awaiting the results of a pneumococcal antibody test (blood taken on Mar.10) and it will be interesting to see what level remains. I don't think I would be offered a top up or would want to go to the surgery under present circs. however so it is more of academic interest.

[UncleIan]

We have a pizza oven in the garden. What issues could arise if we held an "over the fence" pizza day? Basically, I prep the oven and either make and cook pizza to hand over the fence (as in, on a long-handled pizza spatula, so not actually touched by me after it's gone into the 500 degC oven) or Mrs VRD and I retreat indoors and let the neighbours cook their own pizzas, only coming out when they have exited the garden?

Just playing with ideas for a bit of variety, especially as this would include school-age kids.

Well you risk is obviously spreading the virus from house to house. Your latter idea of having other people in the garden and their kids doesn't sound great if I'm honest. I would maybe make pizzas for people, using my ingredients, so the cooked pizza comes out the oven and passed over the fence onto a waiting plate. Then I'd put the pizza spatula back in the oven to sterilise before using it again.*

Probably a good way of looking at it is to imagine everyone has handled raw chicken, and is going to wash their hands, but hasn't yet. Everything they touch could make you ill. Everything you touch could make them ill.

* But actually, I probably wouldn't do it at all. The risks outweigh the benefits in my opinion. We're on day three of the lockdown. It's hunkering down time, not neighbourly garden party time.

[Itsallaguess]

We have a pizza oven in the garden. What issues could arise if we held an "over the fence" pizza day? Basically, I prep the oven and either make and cook pizza to hand over the fence (as in, on a long-handled pizza spatula, so not actually touched by me after it's gone into the 500 degC oven) or Mrs VRD and I retreat indoors and let the neighbours cook their own pizzas, only coming out when they have exited the garden?

Just playing with ideas for a bit of variety, especially as this would include school-age kids.

But actually, I probably wouldn't do it at all. The risks outweigh the benefits in my opinion. We're on day three of the lockdown. It's hunkering down time, not neighbourly garden party time.

I've got to say that this was my initial reaction too, with the idea that with various kids in attendance, the potential is there for the majority of any virus-related risk to be playing out well away from the adult-focus of the pizza-oven...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

We have a pizza oven in the garden. What issues could arise if we held an "over the fence" pizza day? Basically, I prep the oven and either make and cook pizza to hand over the fence (as in, on a long-handled pizza spatula, so not actually touched by me after it's gone into the 500 degC oven) or Mrs VRD and I retreat indoors and let the neighbours cook their own pizzas, only coming out when they have exited the garden?

Just playing with ideas for a bit of variety, especially as this would include school-age kids.

But actually, I probably wouldn't do it at all. The risks outweigh the benefits in my opinion. We're on day three of the lockdown. It's hunkering down time, not neighbourly garden party time.

I've got to say that this was my initial reaction too, with the idea that with various kids in attendance, the potential is there for the majority of any virus-related risk to be playing out well away from the adult-focus of the pizza-oven...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Seems like trying to manage the risk for a situation that does not "need" to happen. So the best way to manage the risk is to not do it in the first place.

John

[Howard]

Is this the occasion to suggest you buy a breadmaker?

And have fresh bread on tap whenever you want it.

Watis

I've had a breadmaker for 30 years and have never looked back!

Do you have a favourite recipe which guarantees as good a loaf as a Hovis Granary for example.

I'll ask Mrs H to try it out. And to stay on topic - we'll call it our Coronahovis recipe

regards

Howard

Mine's a Panny too - they are still the best, afaik.

I've tried various bread flours but the best - by far - is 'Canadian extra strong bread flour' which is only available in Waitrose. It does cost more - a lot more - than other bread flours but it makes divine bread. White, wholemeal and other versions are available. I haven't used anything else for years.

HTH,

Watis


(no connection to Waitrose)

We have a "Panny" and it makes some things well. Pizza base for example.

The one thing it is useless at is making a decent loaf of bread!

How queer - ours work flawlessly. A basic loaf recipe is to use approx 1.33 flour:liquid weight ratio, where liquid=water+oil, with oil (olive, rapeseed) = ~15g. About 3/4 measured teaspoon of yeast powder does the trick. ~1 teaspoon salt. Program choice would be any of white, wholemeal, speciality, french.

I prefer smaller, less tall, loaves, so commonly for example use 350g flour:265g liquid (250 water+ 15g oil), or use 300g flour:227g liquid.

Flour used is mainly white, sometimes but not usually extra strong, with rye + wholemeal in varying amounts, perhaps up to 1/4-1/3 of the total (rye doesn't rise well so need to go easy with it).

Seeds are often added, usually just the smaller ones that go straight into the pan (not the dispenser), but also sometimes use the dispenser and if so select the appropriate program.

This method works pretty much flawlessly, with never a failed loaf.

Many thanks for the suggestions. We have plenty of time to try them out!

regards

Howard

[ursaminortaur]

I wonder if Dr Ffybes or anyone else could answer the following question about the relevance and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine, offered by the NHS at age 65, in the context of Covid-19. I understand it doesn't prevent viral infections but would it prevent bacterial infections making the situation worse and possibly make a difference between death and survival? I know it is regarded as a one-off jab but I understand that in some cases a second vaccination is given to at-risk patients if a long time has elapsed since the first, subject to a test of the residual antibody level. DAK how long it takes to get a result of such a test? I have read that people with the virus often die of pneumonia and I wonder whether they have not had the pneumococcal jab, whether they did at 65 but its effectiveness has worn off, or whether any of them had been re-vaccinated but it made no difference. possibly because there was already scarring in the lungs at the time of infection. Are there any doctors on here who wouldk know the answers or, like the GP I spoke to about having a top up, do they just leave all that to the nurses. It occurs to me that whereas a one-off at 65 might have been OK in earlier years, now we are in general living longer, that may no longer be the case.

Harking back to the discussion as to why some people including the young are killed and others get off lightly, as has been stated earlier much depends on the state of the immune system which is affected by the shrinkage of the thymus gland and reduced ability to absorb Vitamin D (which we should all take in the winter) as we get older, exercise and stress. I can't help thinking it would save an awful lot of money and lives if such things were monitored from time to time. A private Vitamin test only costs £29.

This was discussed here:-
viewtopic.php?p=287291#p287291

I am not allowed access to that board, according to the message that came up when I clicked on your link. No idea why.

There is a group you have to join to see the posts in the polite discussions board.
Go to https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/ucp.php?i=181

and then in "edit memberships" tick the box to select the "Polite Discussion Group" and press the submit button.

[tikunetih]

So long as your ingredients are good (fresh) and your machine's OK, then the above suggestions should work.

We do different loaves but the standard one for me is:
- 350g flour (with most of that being white, plus wholemeal and/or rye - easy on the rye as it doesn't rise much, unless you're aiming for a dense rye loaf of course)
- 15g oil, 250g water (to make 265g liquid)
- 1 measured teaspoon salt
- 3/4 measured teaspoon of bread-making yeast (Aldi or Lidl)
- couple of measured tablespoons of small seeds, like sesame, linseed, poppy
- usually on the Speciality setting (this is the longest program bar the French one),

...works flawlessly, every time for years, two different Panny machines. The oil helps with the crust and keeps the loaf fresher (moist) for longer. I do measure everything accurately, no winging it or guesswork.

Good luck! Especially finding flour to buy if you're not already plush.

[Bouleversee]

Ursaminataur said:

"There is a group you have to join to see the posts in the polite discussions board.
Go to ucp.php?i=181

and then in "edit memberships" tick the box to select the "Polite Discussion Group" and press the submit button."

And then you get a message saying "Are you sure you want to join the selected group". Sounds lie the Mafia; not sure I do! If all are welcome, why is all this necessary?

[redsturgeon]

Ursaminataur said:

"There is a group you have to join to see the posts in the polite discussions board.
Go to ucp.php?i=181

and then in "edit memberships" tick the box to select the "Polite Discussion Group" and press the submit button."

And then you get a message saying "Are you sure you want to join the selected group". Sounds lie the Mafia; not sure I do! If all are welcome, why is all this necessary?

Some members had said they didn't want access and some the the topics had got a little heated so we decided that you should specifically have to opt in if you wanted to participate. The coronarvirus thread on there would be allowed to become more politically charged than the one on the Snug.

John

[vrdiver]

But actually, I probably wouldn't do it at all. The risks outweigh the benefits in my opinion. We're on day three of the lockdown. It's hunkering down time, not neighbourly garden party time.

I've got to say that this was my initial reaction too, with the idea that with various kids in attendance, the potential is there for the majority of any virus-related risk to be playing out well away from the adult-focus of the pizza-oven...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Seems like trying to manage the risk for a situation that does not "need" to happen. So the best way to manage the risk is to not do it in the first place.

John

Thanks all - good advice.