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Why Linux?

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GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#329626

Postby GeoffF100 » July 30th, 2020, 10:34 am

stacker512 wrote:
GeoffF100 wrote:If the Linux Kernel is updated a reboot is required. That can be avoided in some cases by using Live Patch, but I believe that you have to pay Canonical for that service.

My experience is that a kernel update doesn't require you to reboot then and there - you continue to use your existing kernel image and modules until the next reboot. If you require any of the kernel updates (a specific bug fix or a feature) to be active, then sure, you would reboot. Otherwise it's going to be enabled on next boot by the simple fact that when you boot up, the kernel image is loaded up and the relevant modules are loaded.

(edit: you do have kexec, which allows you to load and boot a kernel image from an already running kernel image, but I've never tried it and not sure how many of the popular Linux distros use that feature as part of the kernel update mechanism)

Sorry, I did not make that clear. If you click the go ahead to a kernel update, an image of the updated kernel is created in the background, while you are running the system using the old kernel. If you then do a normal reboot, the system will use the new kernel image. The old kernel image is not deleted. If you get problems with the new kernel image, you can still boot with the old kernel image.

Mike4
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Re: Why Linux?

#329660

Postby Mike4 » July 30th, 2020, 12:06 pm

langley59 wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:Do you do much with python? It's one of the packages that I just updated.

No not at all, I just use Linux as I did Windows.

Interesting. Do programmes written for Windows run on Linux nowadays then?

I was under the impression there was no chance and if I were to use Linux I would have to find myself new image editing, video editing, website publishing and page layout software applications. Or maybe you don't those needs.

Does Zoom work ok on Linux?

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Re: Why Linux?

#329669

Postby Infrasonic » July 30th, 2020, 12:35 pm

Mike4 wrote:
langley59 wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:Do you do much with python? It's one of the packages that I just updated.

No not at all, I just use Linux as I did Windows.

Interesting. Do programmes written for Windows run on Linux nowadays then?

I was under the impression there was no chance and if I were to use Linux I would have to find myself new image editing, video editing, website publishing and page layout software applications. Or maybe you don't those needs.

Does Zoom work ok on Linux?


Have you actually read through this thread?
Over the years it's been updated with articles/videos and discussions about WINE (Windows apps running in Linux), Windows and Mac apps that have been ported to run natively on Linux (a load of them including many of the currently popular ones like Zoom, Skype, MS Teams et al), Linux app. alternatives to major Windows/Mac apps etc.
Last edited by Infrasonic on July 30th, 2020, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike4
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Re: Why Linux?

#329677

Postby Mike4 » July 30th, 2020, 12:49 pm

Infrasonic wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
langley59 wrote:No not at all, I just use Linux as I did Windows.

Interesting. Do programmes written for Windows run on Linux nowadays then?

I was under the impression there was no chance and if I were to use Linux I would have to find myself new image editing, video editing, website publishing and page layout software applications. Or maybe you don't those needs.

Does Zoom work ok on Linux?


Have you actually read through this thread?
Over the years it's been updated with articles/videos and discussions about WINE (Windows apps running in Linux), Windows and Mac apps that have been ported to run natively on Linux (a load of them including many of the currently popular ones Like Zoom, Skype, MS Teams et al), Linux app. alternatives to major Windows/Mac apps etc.


I've been keeping a weather eye on it, yes. And yes I've seen WINE mentioned many times but never have I seen it spelled out what WINE actually is, and I've often wondered, just like much of the other reems of impenetrable jargon in this thread.

So thanks for that.

langley59
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Re: Why Linux?

#329678

Postby langley59 » July 30th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Mike4 wrote:
langley59 wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:Do you do much with python? It's one of the packages that I just updated.

No not at all, I just use Linux as I did Windows.

Interesting. Do programmes written for Windows run on Linux nowadays then?

I was under the impression there was no chance and if I were to use Linux I would have to find myself new image editing, video editing, website publishing and page layout software applications. Or maybe you don't those needs.

Does Zoom work ok on Linux?


I should perhaps have been more explicit. I used to use Windows for Excel spreadsheets and internet browsing essentially. I now use Linux for Libre Office Calc spreadsheets and internet browsing. There are a few differeneces between the two spreadsheet packages but I can live with them.

The reason I changed was because my computer running Windows 7 crashed and I lost the hard drive. I bought a new computer with Windows 10 installed and found it incredibly slow, prone to freezing, wouldn't recognise my printer, etc. so much so that it became intolerable after just a few weeks. So I replaced the old hard drive in the old computer with a new SSD and downloaded Linux Mint 19.3 to see what it was like. I am very satisfied and aside from a few shortcomings of the spreadsheet package compared to Excel (in my opinion) it wins in every respect. NB I have kept the new Windows computer as a backup.

As for the imaging/video packages you use I can't say.

JohnB
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Re: Why Linux?

#329691

Postby JohnB » July 30th, 2020, 1:18 pm

Mike4 wrote:Interesting. Do programmes written for Windows run on Linux nowadays then?

I was under the impression there was no chance and if I were to use Linux I would have to find myself new image editing, video editing, website publishing and page layout software applications. Or maybe you don't those needs.

Does Zoom work ok on Linux?


GIMP, VLC and audacity are all excellent multi-platform image, audio and video GUI apps. Your favourite apps might not be ported, but generally the quality of the free software on Linux is much better than Windows, as there is less attempt to monitise it.

The Linux command line tools seem much better if you are a power user.

Of course I know a lot less about Windows s/w as I hate the OS, and always look for Linux solutions rather than boot my Windows machine.

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Re: Why Linux?

#329707

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 30th, 2020, 1:52 pm

Mike4 wrote:Does Zoom work ok on Linux?

Yes:

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articl ... m-on-Linux

RC

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Re: Why Linux?

#329715

Postby Mike4 » July 30th, 2020, 2:09 pm

langley59 wrote:The reason I changed was because my computer running Windows 7 crashed and I lost the hard drive. I bought a new computer with Windows 10 installed and found it incredibly slow, prone to freezing, wouldn't recognise my printer, etc. so much so that it became intolerable after just a few weeks.


Like you I dumped Windows for similar reasons, only I went out and bought myself an *pple.

Never looked back. Three years of trouble-free computing, not yet needed to look under the bonnet like I did with Windows nearly every day.

Reading this thread though, Linux does not look able to compete with such stability. Mind you I'm just a retail user who wants to run a few mainstream apps on three synced computers and two printers in a trouble-free way. *pple achieve this admirably. Not convinced Linux could, given the amount of tinkering you chaps in here seem to need to do.

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Re: Why Linux?

#329754

Postby GeoffF100 » July 30th, 2020, 4:00 pm

GIMP is the most comprehensive image editing program. It runs on Linux, Windows and OS X. DigiKam is a simpler package aimed at organising and editing photos. It has a less steep learning curve than GIMP. Nonetheless, GIMP is so widely used that all you have to do is ask Google what you want to accomplish, and you will get a series of step by step instructions. LibreOffice Draw is another simpler package that is useful for many tasks. Scribus is a full desktop publishing package, if you want that.

WINE allows you to run a majority of Windows programs on Linux.

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Re: Why Linux?

#329798

Postby Breelander » July 30th, 2020, 5:35 pm

July 29, 2020 -- 17:00 GMT
Details about a new vulnerability in a core component of the Secure Boot process have been published today....

...BootHole is a vulnerability in GRUB2, one of today's most popular bootloader components...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boothole- ... cure-boot/

GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#329824

Postby GeoffF100 » July 30th, 2020, 7:59 pm

Breelander wrote:
July 29, 2020 -- 17:00 GMT
Details about a new vulnerability in a core component of the Secure Boot process have been published today....

...BootHole is a vulnerability in GRUB2, one of today's most popular bootloader components...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boothole- ... cure-boot/

I got the update for Lubuntu 20.04 a few minutes ago. I went ahead with the update but I hit a problem. I got a confusing window asking where I wanted to install GRUB. It offered the options of sda and sda1. I tried ticking each box separately. Both options were rejected. I ignored the warning the my system might not reboot and ticked both boxes, not seeing any other option. My system did not reboot needless to say. It went into GRUB recovery with the error symbol 'grub_calloc' not found. I did not have a clue what to do, so I asked Google. I found this:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1263125 ... -not-found

The relevant post (dated a few hours ago) is:

Using Linux Mint 19.3 bios grub setup in a simple 2 partition installation.
After GRUB2 update the machine crashed on reboot and entered rescue mode.

error: symbol 'grub_calloc' not found
To restore GRUB I booted into Linux Mint 19.3 Live USB stick and issued the following commands in the terminal:

$ sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt
$ sudo grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/ /dev/sda

On reboot the desktop showed up nicely.

I booted from a live Lubuntu 18.04 USB and typed the two commands above. It worked, I was then able to reboot into Lubuntu 20.04. Perhaps it serves me right for having just posted that I have not had any update errors. :)

GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#330888

Postby GeoffF100 » August 4th, 2020, 3:54 pm

I have installed Xubuntu 20.04 on my Linux machine. I was not having any further problems with Lubuntu 20.04, but if it works, why not fix it? I have to say that I am impressed.

I did not encounter any problems installing from DVD to the SSD. I downloaded and installed Google Chrome and set it to be my default browser. Clicking on a link in LibreOffice opened the link in Chrome, which did not happen with Lubuntu 20.04. I also have not noticed the screen tearing problems that I had with Lubuntu 20.04. (They were fixable, but that is not the point.) I had a look at the boot time:

geoff@HP:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 1.409s (kernel) + 6.633s (userspace) = 8.043s
graphical.target reached after 6.616s in userspace


Xubuntu 20.04 beat Lubuntu 20.04 by nearly a second. The spelling checker for LibreOffice was downloaded automatically. On Lubuntu 20.04 there is not even a Language Preferences entry in the menu.

The memory used immediately after booting was 406 MB. That is only a little more than Lubuntu 20.04.

There does not appear to be any noticeable difference in speed between the two operating systems, but Mr Moneybags here has a £49 computer with a Core i3-3220 processor and 4 GB of RAM. It would be interesting to hear a report from someone with a more downmarket machine. Nonetheless Xubuntu 20.04 is a much more polished product than Lubuntu 20.04, and I doubt that there is any good reason for installing Lubuntu 20.04 in preference.

GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#330939

Postby GeoffF100 » August 4th, 2020, 8:32 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:GIMP is the most comprehensive image editing program. It runs on Linux, Windows and OS X. DigiKam is a simpler package aimed at organising and editing photos. It has a less steep learning curve than GIMP. Nonetheless, GIMP is so widely used that all you have to do is ask Google what you want to accomplish, and you will get a series of step by step instructions. LibreOffice Draw is another simpler package that is useful for many tasks. Scribus is a full desktop publishing package, if you want that.

WINE allows you to run a majority of Windows programs on Linux.

I found ShowFoto:

http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/10-b ... -for-linux

ShowFoto provides the DigiKam photo editing functions without the database functions, which suits me well. No problems installing it on Lubuntu 20.04 (it is a KDE application using the Qt library). I hit a slight problem when I tried to install it on Xubuntu 20.04 using Gnome Software. Nothing seemed to happen when I clicked Install, so I clicked Cancel. Software then showed it as Installed, but when I clicked Remove it said that there were no packages to remove. Software is notorious for that kind of behaviour, but I had not encountered it myself. No problem. I installed it via the command line:

sudo apt install showfoto

I was warned that the installation required over 600 MB of disk space. No matter. When I launched the application it took up very little RAM.

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Re: Why Linux?

#330940

Postby 1nvest » August 4th, 2020, 8:34 pm

My Linux (Fatdog) boots from a USB stick, loads everything into ram, after which the usb can be unplugged. Boots the exact same every time, HDD is just for data.

For updates, I just boot, make the changes, perform a save and thereafter it boots with those changes/updates included.

Other than for a single session, can't be hacked. Data integrity is the main risk, regular backups to otherwise disconnected media addresses that.

The laptop I'm using was gifted as it was just too slow for Windows. Primarily because of the HDD slow spin up speed. When everything runs in ram, that's a non-issue (and runs really quick). For what data is read from/to disk the lag is acceptable.

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Re: Why Linux?

#330991

Postby GeoffF100 » August 5th, 2020, 7:50 am

It looked as though I still had a little screen tearing with Xubuntu 20.04, so I ran the test video here:

https://learnubuntumate.weebly.com/scre ... phics.html

That was right, and applied the fix given in that link.

When I installed Xubuntu, I selected install in place of Lubuntu, but I did not select erase disk. The boot partition is still sda1, but Xubuntu has been installed to sda5:

Code: Select all

geoff@HP:~$ df -h
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev            1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /dev
tmpfs           383M  1.3M  382M   1% /run
/dev/sda5       110G  8.9G   95G   9% /
tmpfs           1.9G   46M  1.9G   3% /dev/shm
tmpfs           5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
tmpfs           1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/sda1       511M  4.0K  511M   1% /boot/efi
tmpfs           383M   16K  383M   1% /run/user/1000

Gparted shows sda2 extended with sda5 appearing to be the extension. Selecting erase disk would have been less confusing.

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Re: Why Linux?

#331004

Postby GeoffF100 » August 5th, 2020, 8:57 am

Extended partitions are explained here:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Howto ... ningBasics

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Re: Why Linux?

#331054

Postby Infrasonic » August 5th, 2020, 11:11 am

Breelander wrote:
July 29, 2020 -- 17:00 GMT
Details about a new vulnerability in a core component of the Secure Boot process have been published today....

...BootHole is a vulnerability in GRUB2, one of today's most popular bootloader components...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boothole- ... cure-boot/


https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-fixes ... es-are-in/
The first release of patches to the Linux BootHole came with a show-stopping problem. The fixed machines wouldn't boot. For the most part, that problem has been solved.
Cont.

GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#331060

Postby GeoffF100 » August 5th, 2020, 11:25 am

Infrasonic wrote:
Breelander wrote:
July 29, 2020 -- 17:00 GMT
Details about a new vulnerability in a core component of the Secure Boot process have been published today....

...BootHole is a vulnerability in GRUB2, one of today's most popular bootloader components...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/boothole- ... cure-boot/

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-fixes ... es-are-in/
The first release of patches to the Linux BootHole came with a show-stopping problem. The fixed machines wouldn't boot. For the most part, that problem has been solved.
Cont.

As I said, earlier in the thread, for the 'buntus, it is not necessary to downgrade GRUB/GRUB2. You could fix the problem by reinstalling with the GRUB version in the repository which was said to be the latest version. Alternatively, a boot repair achieves the same end. The offending Ubuntu update not only addressed boot hole, but also several other boot vulnerabilities. With Lubuntu, I got another GRUB update and that worked. My freshly installed Xubuntu has not hit the problem.

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Re: Why Linux?

#331064

Postby JohnB » August 5th, 2020, 11:31 am

I was thinking of trying out more linux variants than my trust Mine Mate 19. I got out an old desktop, which was noisy and sulked. I got my emergency windows laptop, which fought so hard to keep me out of the boot BIOS, then sulked. So I'm going back to trusty VirtualBox on my near-silent Quad core Intel i5 3.5 GHz, 16Gb machine I built myself.

How many virtual machines can I expect to run on it at once? I've been giving them 4Gb and a processor each, and have a archive team VM which does good works, and has 400Mb and a processor.

My preference would be to run up 3 VMs, the archive team one and 2 linux variants, is that likely to stress things, or could I do more?

GeoffF100
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Re: Why Linux?

#331627

Postby GeoffF100 » August 7th, 2020, 8:13 pm

I am still very pleased with Xubuntu 20.04. I do an auto-login so I was puzzled to see Xubuntu prompting me for password when I went away for a few minutes while my machine was running. I could not see anything in the Power manager that would do that. Then I had inspiration. I found that the Screensaver settings had screen lock set by default. The screen saver was set to a blank screen, so I did not know that I had one. The Floating Xfce screensaver is an absolute hoot, with the Xfce mice darting about. Of course, there is no technical reason for a screensaver nowadays. Their purpose was to stop CRT displays wearing out. Nonetheless, they are a nice retro touch.


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