AA president hides keyless car fob inside microwave to foil hackers

[Itsallaguess]

From the Telegraph -

The AA's president has revealed he keeps his keyless car fob inside a metal box in his microwave oven, after hackers stole his wife’s Lexus -

Edmund King has gone to unprecedented lengths to prevent thieves intercepting the key’s signal and stealing his car by placing it in a Faraday pouch – a leather bag with wire mesh lining – inside a red metal box. It is then placed inside the microwave at the back of the house, away from the road.

The moves may seem excessive, but it comes amid a 22 per cent increase in car thefts in the past year to nearly 110,000 and his family’s shock after a crime gang made off with his wife Deirdre’s £50,000 Lexus.

There has been increasing evidence of crime gangs stealing luxury cars to order by using tech kits bought off the internet to “relay” signals from unprotected keys inside people’s houses to unlock the vehicle.

One of the thieves with an amplifier stands by the property to pick up the fob’s signal. It is then relayed to a second gang member with a transmitter by the car, making the vehicle’s sensors think the key is nearby and the doors can safely be opened.

It comes as the AA urged motorists to safeguard their keys with measures such as Faraday pouches after a poll of 4,000 owners of cars with keyless entry found that more than half - 51 per cent - admitted they did not protect their fobs in any way, leaving them exposed to relay theft.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/04/aa-president-hides-keyless-car-fob-inside-microwave-foil-hackers/

Yet another example of hi-tech manufacturers introducing 'solutions' that few of us want, that then automatically and unknowingly come with very high level risks that are then very difficult and complicated to reduce...

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[88V8]

My first and only remote locking car was a 1986 Renault 5 Turbo that came with what they called a 'plip'.
Great idea, at the time.
Now, it's one of many many superfluous gubbins from which the V8 fleet does not suffer

V8

[pje16]

My car has Autowatch Ghost
not cheap, but it makes your car safe from theft
The only way to steal it is on a transporter, and when they get to wherever they want to take it, it still won't start

https://www.londoncaralarmco.com/autowa ... mmobiliser

[pje16]

love one of the comments in the link article in the OP

"Your problem now, Mr King, is that thieves may not be able to steal your car by this method but you have told them precisely where to look should they break into your home."

What a nob

[mc2fool]

There has been increasing evidence of crime gangs stealing luxury cars to order by using tech kits bought off the internet to “relay” signals from unprotected keys inside people’s houses to unlock the vehicle.

One of the thieves with an amplifier stands by the property to pick up the fob’s signal. It is then relayed to a second gang member with a transmitter by the car, making the vehicle’s sensors think the key is nearby and the doors can safely be opened.

Yet another example of hi-tech manufacturers introducing 'solutions' that few of us want, that then automatically and unknowingly come with very high level risks that are then very difficult and complicated to reduce...

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

Not having owned a car for quite a while I was initially puzzled, thinking but doesn't the fob only emit a signal when you press a button on it to get your car to open (or to flash its lights so you can find it in a car park)?

So do I understand correctly that the new(er) fangled devices emit a signal constantly so that the car will open whenever you get near to it, with no button press needed and the fob still in your pocket/purse? If so, sounds like an inherently daft idea to me!

And then how does driving it away work? Don't you have to use some "key" (enter a code or something) to start it up? Or does it simply assume that once open anyone getting in is the owner?

[pje16]

It is not the fob that is at work,
the car continually transmits a low-frequency radio signal to wake up any wireless keys within range
and all you do once it is in range is press the start button
Further up the post I said I had Autowatch Ghost installed
That does require you to press a button sequence of your choice to enable the car to start

[simoan]

Yet another example of hi-tech manufacturers introducing 'solutions' that few of us want, that then automatically and unknowingly come with very high level risks that are then very difficult and complicated to reduce...

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

We bought a new car last year and top of my wishlist was to avoid any car with "keyless entry". Anyone who has ever worked in data security (like me) knows the basic law that "convenience is the enemy of good security". Inconvenience beats laziness.

All the best, Si

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I have a white.

It's 7 years old. I purchased it new and it's now got 95K on the clock.

Best guess it may be worth £2-4K.

There just may be some deterrence in the value of my white one against determined thieves

My good lady has a blue. I bought it "virtually new". Best guess is it may be worth £4-5K. It has 23K on the clock

AiY(D)
LBYM

[AF62]

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

And now he has blocked signal and the thieves cannot steal the £50,000 car without bothering the household they must go back to the old ways of doing things - knock on the front door and threaten to beat the living daylights out of the person that answers unless they hand over the keys.

Personally the first option with an insurance claim seems the preferable option.

My car has Autowatch Ghost
not cheap, but it makes your car safe from theft
The only way to steal it is on a transporter, and when they get to wherever they want to take it, it still won't start

https://www.londoncaralarmco.com/autowa ... mmobiliser

And when the car doesn't start after the thieves have threatened you with a crowbar to obtain the keys, lets hope the 999 response is quick.

[DrFfybes]

My car has Autowatch Ghost
not cheap, but it makes your car safe from theft
The only way to steal it is on a transporter, and when they get to wherever they want to take it, it still won't start

https://www.londoncaralarmco.com/autowa ... mmobiliser

Our has some sort of 1980s immobiliser.
Very cheap, with the same end result.

Paul

[kiloran]

love one of the comments in the link article in the OP

"Your problem now, Mr King, is that thieves may not be able to steal your car by this method but you have told them precisely where to look should they break into your home."

What a nob

Ah, but he did not say where he has hidden the microwave. In the fridge, maybe?

--kiloran

[pje16]

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

And now he has blocked signal and the thieves cannot steal the £50,000 car without bothering the household they must go back to the old ways of doing things - knock on the front door and threaten to beat the living daylights out of the person that answers unless they hand over the keys.

Personally the first option with an insurance claim seems the preferable option.

My car has Autowatch Ghost
not cheap, but it makes your car safe from theft
The only way to steal it is on a transporter, and when they get to wherever they want to take it, it still won't start

https://www.londoncaralarmco.com/autowa ... mmobiliser

And when the car doesn't start after the thieves have threatened you with a crowbar to obtain the keys, lets hope the 999 response is quick.

You watch too much telly, or you need to move house

[AF62]

How annoying must it be that such complicated time-wasting efforts must be taken to secure a fob-device that was initially designed to save seconds when compared to earlier, more secure entry and starting processes...

And now he has blocked signal and the thieves cannot steal the £50,000 car without bothering the household they must go back to the old ways of doing things - knock on the front door and threaten to beat the living daylights out of the person that answers unless they hand over the keys.

Personally the first option with an insurance claim seems the preferable option.

My car has Autowatch Ghost
not cheap, but it makes your car safe from theft
The only way to steal it is on a transporter, and when they get to wherever they want to take it, it still won't start

https://www.londoncaralarmco.com/autowa ... mmobiliser

And when the car doesn't start after the thieves have threatened you with a crowbar to obtain the keys, lets hope the 999 response is quick.

You watch too much telly, or you need to move house

Need to move house? I am not the one who feels the need to have an expensive security system fitted to my car because they worry about it being stolen

I am more than happy leaving my car unlocked outside my house, in the streets in town, or the supermarket car park, and have no doubt that nothing will have occurred in my absence.

[pje16]

Need to move house? I am not the one who feels the need to have an expensive security system fitted to my car because they worry about it being stolen

I am more than happy leaving my car unlocked outside my house, in the streets in town, or the supermarket car park, and have no doubt that nothing will have occurred in my absence.

Apologies, I wrongly assumed to have that notion about being frogmarched by thieves was what it was like were you live
I am somehwat surprised that you can leave everything unlocked, but then again I live in London

[mc2fool]

It is not the fob that is at work,
the car continually transmits a low-frequency radio signal to wake up any wireless keys within range

Any wireless keys?!? Not even an encrypted signal that will wake up only the fob linked to the car? If so that's even worse!

In any case, the core idea that your car will open whenever you get "near" to it, without any explicit action by you, is a daft one. Whoever thought that up?

[pje16]

it doesn't open until the press the button
well mine doesn't
You need to have "comfort access" for a BMW to work like that

[pje16]

He did tell me some other Cossie urban myths of Cossie's being nicked from police compounds and one guy that hooked the body of his car up to the mains to deter thieves.

Love that one
I know a guy who put wires from the mains on the inside at top of his fence as vagrants were stealing planks to use for a fire in an old disused warehouse, his fence stayed intact after that

[mc2fool]

it doesn't open until the press the button
well mine doesn't
You need to have "comfort access" for a BMW to work like that

Well yours may not but that's clearly not the type the article is talking about, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Why would the fob send its open-the-door code simply by being pinged if it requires pressing the button to do so? Clearly the article is talking about ones that don't need the button press.

Indeed, the Telegraph article finishes with "“Are we that lazy that we cannot press a button on a key fob or turn a key if it protects us?”"

[pje16]

it doesn't open until the press the button
well mine doesn't
You need to have "comfort access" for a BMW to work like that

Well yours may not but that's clearly not the type the article is talking about, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Why would the fob send its open-the-door code simply by being pinged if it requires pressing the button to do so? Clearly the article is talking about ones that don't need the button press.

Indeed, the Telegraph article finishes with "“Are we that lazy that we cannot press a button on a key fob or turn a key if it protects us?”"

I am not a villain, but I assume when they transmit from the 1st device to the 2nd that 2nd device has a button you can press

[PhaseThree]

These proximity activated keyless entry systems have always looked to me to be a solution looking for a problem.
Unfortunately as has been shown they are a poorly thought through solution looking for a problem, as a simple bit of electronics can extend the definition of proximity to be whatever the thief wants it to be. (There was a report of a car being activated miles away from the home using the spare fob kept in a draw in the kitchen.)

The very latest systems require the fob to be moving/shaken before the proximity link can activate. So a fob lying on a shelf in the house can't be used to activate a car, but a fob in your pocket will active as you walk towards the car.

I'm not sure if these systems have made it into the latest vehicles yet but will definitely be in the next versions. (Still not sure it's a problem that needs solution though)