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News

How to buy, profit and invest in crypto currencies or NFTs
Bubblesofearth
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Re: News

#631154

Postby Bubblesofearth » December 2nd, 2023, 9:31 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
If a discussion is desired of Anarcho Capitalism, then yes, it should be on the politics board. I just don't particularly want to start one as I doubt that it would have any benefit.


Maybe, maybe not, but ISTM that your interest in crypto is being driven by political/philosophical thoughts rather than those pertaining strictly to investability. However, I suspect that most people are coming to this board, which is after all on 'investors roundtable', looking for the investment case for crypto. It may be that case is strengthened if you assume certain political backdrops but, again, I suspect most people are investing based on the World we currently live in. Hence the general antipathy to crypto.

FWIW I don't see Bitcoin as a scam or fraud or even necessarily enabling for criminals. I just don't see any reason to invest in it.

BoE

Itsallaguess
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Re: News

#631157

Postby Itsallaguess » December 2nd, 2023, 9:45 am

Bubblesofearth wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:
If a discussion is desired of Anarcho Capitalism, then yes, it should be on the politics board. I just don't particularly want to start one as I doubt that it would have any benefit.


Maybe, maybe not, but ISTM that your interest in crypto is being driven by political/philosophical thoughts rather than those pertaining strictly to investability.

However, I suspect that most people are coming to this board, which is after all on 'investors roundtable', looking for the investment case for crypto.

It may be that case is strengthened if you assume certain political backdrops but, again, I suspect most people are investing based on the World we currently live in.

Hence the general antipathy to crypto.


And hence why I though it important to confirm that the poster perhaps considered to be the main proponent of Bitcoin on these boards is a self-confessed Anarchist.

That's not to cast any aspersions on that political viewpoint, but I do think it's important on what is surprisingly still headlined as being an 'Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forum', that people reading regular pro-crypto posts here should properly understand other's underlying potential motivations regarding that promotion.

And for the avoidance of doubt, if I were an Anarchist myself then I would probably have a much keener focus on the Bitcoin/Crypto scene too, so I do see why it might be seen to be attractive to people with pro-Anarchy political leaning.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Urbandreamer
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Re: News

#631177

Postby Urbandreamer » December 2nd, 2023, 10:55 am

Bubblesofearth wrote:
Maybe, maybe not, but ISTM that your interest in crypto is being driven by political/philosophical thoughts rather than those pertaining strictly to investability. However, I suspect that most people are coming to this board, which is after all on 'investors roundtable', looking for the investment case for crypto. It may be that case is strengthened if you assume certain political backdrops but, again, I suspect most people are investing based on the World we currently live in. Hence the general antipathy to crypto.

FWIW I don't see Bitcoin as a scam or fraud or even necessarily enabling for criminals. I just don't see any reason to invest in it.

BoE


I certainly don't think that bitcoin is "Inevitable". Desirable possibly, but inevitable, certainly not. There are very serious issues with it's ability to cope with the desires of it's proponents. Indeed there is much talk in the community about how it can function for those of slight means (the poor). As adoption grows and time progresses it will get more expensive. Transactions may become out of reach of all but the few.

Someone recently paid $3.1 million for a single transaction! It was a mistake by the user and the transaction provider has kindly refunded the fee, but fees are NOT cheap. Moving 11,055 sats (£24.64) on chain from one wallet to another in October cost me 3253 sats or £0.73 at the time.
This is why there is so much interest in layer 2 protocols. In June the transaction fee to pay for my beer via lightning was 19 sats, at today's price that's 1/2 a penny.

Fedimints and eCash may be an answer to transaction fees. But that's considering it's use as a currency, rather than "investment".

As for the "World we currently live in", which one would that be? One where protesters have their bank accounts frozen? Ah, you didn't actually mean the world, did you? You meant the UK rather than the world including Canada, USA etc. The world of democratic countries, excluding dictatorships, communist single party states, theocracies, and military junta's.

Is there a reason to "invest" in bitcoin? I personally think that it's very questionable if there is a good reason to "invest" in it if you live in the UK.

Is there a reason to hold bitcoin, hell yes. The UK is not without it's own darker history.

You don't need to be an anarchist to study history or world affairs.

Bubblesofearth
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Re: News

#631243

Postby Bubblesofearth » December 2nd, 2023, 3:49 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:

As for the "World we currently live in", which one would that be? One where protesters have their bank accounts frozen? Ah, you didn't actually mean the world, did you? You meant the UK rather than the world including Canada, USA etc. The world of democratic countries, excluding dictatorships, communist single party states, theocracies, and military junta's.

Is there a reason to "invest" in bitcoin? I personally think that it's very questionable if there is a good reason to "invest" in it if you live in the UK.

Is there a reason to hold bitcoin, hell yes. The UK is not without it's own darker history.

You don't need to be an anarchist to study history or world affairs.


By 'the World we live in' I'm referring to the current fiat money system as that's the obstacle to adoption of crypto as legal tender. Governments and central banks would basically need to be willing to abandon any semblance of the monetary control they currently enjoy. Not saying that couldn't happen but it would require a hell of a revolution. Possibly quite literally!

As for your penultimate line 'Is there a reason to hold bitcoin, hell yes. The UK is not without it's own darker history.' I'm not sure what you mean by this? How does the darker history of the UK make Bitcoin a good thing to hold?

BoE

Urbandreamer
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Re: News

#631268

Postby Urbandreamer » December 2nd, 2023, 4:44 pm

Bubblesofearth wrote:
As for your penultimate line 'Is there a reason to hold bitcoin, hell yes. The UK is not without it's own darker history.' I'm not sure what you mean by this? How does the darker history of the UK make Bitcoin a good thing to hold?

BoE


Well in 1966, the government sought to restrict people "hoarding" gold, to preserve wealth in a time of rising costs of living.
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... gold-coins

Currently you "may" be able to leave the country, taking your wealth with you. This has not always been the case.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media ... istory.pdf

At present, there is no plan to devalue the pound, but it has happened in the past. Coincidentally the same year as that BoE bulletin about exchange controls.
https://history.blog.gov.uk/2017/11/17/ ... -sterling/
Just a couple of years before Hayek pointed out that governments couldn't be trusted with money.

Exchange controls were abolished by the Thatcher government in 79.

Note that I'm only listing Financial reasons to hold bitcoin and not reasons why people have in the past felt a need to leave the UK, but were not allowed to take their assets with them.

However assuming that you are just interested in dark history.

You do know that the government sent gun boats to Liverpool because people went on strike don't you? Of course back then it was a cash economy and the strikers could buy bread. Today the government could just freeze their bank accounts like the Canadian government did to strikers fairly recently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-14529243


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