Gas useage

[melonfool]

Hi

I'm not quite sure where to post this for advice, but I'll start here.

My gas usage has dropped dramatically since May this year - such that my projection now is that I will use in a year what I previously used in a week. Figures will be posted below.

Non-variables I have taken into account:

1) I have not had a new boiler or any sort of heating system adjustments
2) I did reduce the 'flow rate' of my boiler early last year, which seems to have had minimal impact
3) this is not about cost, it is about units used - I am not confusing the direct debit with actual usage (unlike 99.9% of the population)
4) I have been tracking this over four years and the averages were fairly consistent until May this year
5) I did have a new, smart, meter fitted a few weeks ago, but this issue started before that and the new meter has not resolved it
6) this has been obvious since about May, but cannot be directly related to my heating as I turned that off in March having had a thermostat failure in Feb (and I've not worked out how to use the new one so in the end I just turned it off)
7) - this is the potential biggy - when my heating is on the pressure in my boiler regularly drops and the boiler has to be repressurised about once a week. I have had three plumbers look at it, no leaks have been found (two rad valves have been replaced over a year ago 'just in case'), the boiler is confirmed as not being faulty (it is 5 years old, an Ideal Mini I think) and it has had its pressure value replaced. There is no leakage from the outflow pipe from the boiler. This pressure issue does not seem to occur when the heating is not on so it seems there is a leak somewhere in the heating system, which I can only assume is on the ground floor under the flooring - this has been happening for about three years. I'm not going to dig up the floor to find out.
8) other than heating and hot water I have a gas hob I use a few times a week.

It's obviously not a 'problem' as such, but I am a bit bewildered. I wondered if anyone might have any suggestions.

(I've never got the hang of posting tables/spreadsheets so if anyone can help me work out a better way to do that would be great - hopefully it makes sense and you can understand the formulae I've used - which may be where the problem lies, rather than with the gas/meter/system etc) ((oh crieky, I've just done 'preview' and it looks nothing litk it does on my screen! I don't know how to fix this, sorry!)

thank you
Mel

Date    	Reading				
		                       Units between readings	Days	      Units per day	
02/01/2018	11549				                                                        248.71
04/07/2018	12210	661	                                 183	          3.61	
11/01/2019	12744	534	                                 191	          2.80	
26/10/2019	13440	696	                                 288	          2.42	
03/02/2020	13951	511	                                 100	          5.11	
09/06/2020	14337	386	                                 127	          3.04	
28/02/2022	16417	2080	                                 629	          3.31	
14/03/2022	16464	47	                                   14	          3.36	
31/03/2022	16515	51	                                   17        	  3.00	
30/04/2022	16584	69	                                   30	          2.30	
31/05/2022	16602	18	                                   31	          0.58	   
13/07/2022	16614	12	                                   43	          0.28	        Average units per week
29/07/2022	16617	 3	                                   16	          0.19	        780.3733487
29/07/2022	0				
09/08/2022	2	         2	                                   11	          0.18	
09/09/2022	9	         7	                                   31	          0.23	
01/10/2022	16	         7	                                   22    	  0.32	
09/10/2022	19	         3	                                    8	          0.38	
					                                                                                  PA
				                                                                  1.94	          709.1464232
					
	
	194090

[scotview]

If you are getting the same boiler performance, with less gas usage, I should have your gas meter recalibrated.

Or, if you are getting the same heat output with hugely less gas meter usage.......maybe forget about my suggestion.

[Cornytiv34]

Hi,
I have kept figures for some years and also had a bit of a problem when we got a smart meter. While the reading on the indoor reading gadget for electric is in kWh the reading for the gas is in cubic meters. I had to build in a conversion into my spreadsheet as follows
Cubic meters of gas times heating coefficient of the gas times the conversion of cubic meters to kWh a recent reading was
69*1.002264*39.2008/3.6 = 753 kWh

The coefficient varies by supplier.
So your figure of 2 becomes approximately ten times larger and looks more realistic.
It is a nuisance when things change! Hope this helps.
Mike

[Mike4]

Can we start by sorting out what the units are in the "Units per day" quoted in the table, please?

kWh (kiloWattHours) I would imagine, but let's not get started with possibly wires crossed...

Thanks

[Redmires]

If the 'units' are meter readings then could it be anything to do with the old meter measuring cubic feet and the new one cubic metres ? Although you do say that it happened before the smart meter was installed, so maybe not.

[melonfool]

It can't be linked to the new meter, re calibration etc, because it started in May and I got the new meter in July. So, if you look at the table, it's an issue with both meters.

It's not the indoor unit because I've not been taking the readings from there. Until I got the smart meter I took readings myself. Since then, I've used the readings on the account/bill - not on the indoor display.

But, re the indoor display, today it looks like I've used 51p of gas. That's one shower, one lot of prep for a casserole (browning meat, frying onions) and a pan of boiled spuds. Plus the standing charge is in there.

Re the type of units - it's whatever the meter is showing, but I've always just used the meter display so it should remain comparable.

I can't make any judgment with regard to heat output as this started in May after I turned the thermostat off (and thus the heating) in March, and I've not put the heating back on. The hot water is fine though.

Mel

[melonfool]

Hi,
I have kept figures for some years and also had a bit of a problem when we got a smart meter. While the reading on the indoor reading gadget for electric is in kWh the reading for the gas is in cubic meters. I had to build in a conversion into my spreadsheet as follows
Cubic meters of gas times heating coefficient of the gas times the conversion of cubic meters to kWh a recent reading was
69*1.002264*39.2008/3.6 = 753 kWh

The coefficient varies by supplier.
So your figure of 2 becomes approximately ten times larger and looks more realistic.
It is a nuisance when things change! Hope this helps.
Mike

I have that conversion in my other (costing) spreadsheet. This sheet is a simple list of the readings, and I don't think the original meter which wasn't changed until July could have changed itself from kwh to cubic meters in May?

The other interesting thing is that my "estimated annual usage" on the bill, which is calculated by the energy co (who I also have not changed in this period) which has been the same for years, is now starting to come down, so they've seen it too. Though I don't take much notice of them because they put my electric up by 6x in Feb, because they are useless idiots.

<Head scratch>

Mel

[tjh290633]

My smart meter tells me how many cubic meters of gas I have used. The old meter gave me a figure in hundreds of cubic feet. For my own records, I convert back to HCF so that I can compare latest readings with those taken over the years. The actual meters can only record volumes, not the amount of energy, properly measured in Joules, kiloJoules or MegaJoules. For some reason, the fashion is to use kWh, which does not make sense to me. A kWh is 3600 kJ or 3.6 MJ. The calorific value of the gas has to be monitored, as it can vary from different sources.

The consumption before and after meter change shows no material change.

TJH

[Mike4]

Hi,
I have kept figures for some years and also had a bit of a problem when we got a smart meter. While the reading on the indoor reading gadget for electric is in kWh the reading for the gas is in cubic meters. I had to build in a conversion into my spreadsheet as follows
Cubic meters of gas times heating coefficient of the gas times the conversion of cubic meters to kWh a recent reading was
69*1.002264*39.2008/3.6 = 753 kWh

The coefficient varies by supplier.
So your figure of 2 becomes approximately ten times larger and looks more realistic.
It is a nuisance when things change! Hope this helps.
Mike

I have that conversion in my other (costing) spreadsheet. This sheet is a simple list of the readings, and I don't think the original meter which wasn't changed until July could have changed itself from kwh to cubic meters in May?

The other interesting thing is that my "estimated annual usage" on the bill, which is calculated by the energy co (who I also have not changed in this period) which has been the same for years, is now starting to come down, so they've seen it too. Though I don't take much notice of them because they put my electric up by 6x in Feb, because they are useless idiots.

<Head scratch>

Mel

According to my own notes one cubic metre of gas contains 11.187 kWh of energy. So a change from one unit to the other on the meter change could perhaps roughly account for the step change in recorded consumption, but not the two month time dislocation. An administration delay perhaps?

Also, has any gas technician visited over the period and conducted a gas tightness test? A gas leak wastes gas which you pqy for! Even one you cannot smell. Is there a possibility they found a fixed a leak?


(Edit to add a missing word.)

[melonfool]

Hi,
I have kept figures for some years and also had a bit of a problem when we got a smart meter. While the reading on the indoor reading gadget for electric is in kWh the reading for the gas is in cubic meters. I had to build in a conversion into my spreadsheet as follows
Cubic meters of gas times heating coefficient of the gas times the conversion of cubic meters to kWh a recent reading was
69*1.002264*39.2008/3.6 = 753 kWh

The coefficient varies by supplier.
So your figure of 2 becomes approximately ten times larger and looks more realistic.
It is a nuisance when things change! Hope this helps.
Mike

I have that conversion in my other (costing) spreadsheet. This sheet is a simple list of the readings, and I don't think the original meter which wasn't changed until July could have changed itself from kwh to cubic meters in May?

The other interesting thing is that my "estimated annual usage" on the bill, which is calculated by the energy co (who I also have not changed in this period) which has been the same for years, is now starting to come down, so they've seen it too. Though I don't take much notice of them because they put my electric up by 6x in Feb, because they are useless idiots.

<Head scratch>

Mel

According to my own notes one cubic metre of gas contains 11.187 kWh of energy. So a change from one unit to the other on the meter change could perhaps roughly account for the step change in recorded consumption, but not the two month time dislocation. An administration delay perhaps?

Also, has any gas technician visited over the period and conducted a gas tightness test? A gas leak wastes gas which you pqy for! Even one you cannot smell. Is there a possibility they found a fixed a leak?


(Edit to add a missing word.)

I don't think an admin delay can explain it, because it's the wrong way around. Reduced unit recording started in May, new meter was July.
Had it been the other way around I could see that as a possibility. Though I honestly do think all the units are the same but in the light tomorrow I'll look at the new meter and compare the display to my photos of the old meter.

Re gas technician - nope. Noone has been here since way before May. I had a plumber come earlier in the year to quote for a new bathroom (my third attempt) - I mentioned it to him re the pressure dropping and he just agreed with me there must be a leak somewhere in the system. But this would be a water leak, not a gas leak.

If the pressure dropping is due to a water leak (/evaporation) which seems likely then it must have spontaneously cured itself. And the only explanation I can think of for that is scale. We have extremely hard water so I suppose it's vaguely possible that a small hole or evap space could have just got itself scaled up.

But, how does a water leak lead to more gas use? I guess (and this is a huge leap) that more water going into the system means it's working harder to heat it up, or something? But that doesn't make sense because the reason I know when the pressure has dropped is that the water is cold and the heating isn't on.

Could it be my maths? Though this wouldn't explain why Eon are now starting to predict lower annual use. And at the same time they have suddenly doubled my electricity prediction, having just got it back to what it was before the daily 6x jump attributed to Sept last year (I know the reason for that, as do they, and I had to get the ombudsman involved to sort it out - but that's an unrelated issue).

Re the coefficient calc, I took the formula from my bill so it's the right one for my supply.

If I've had a gas leak for years that I've been paying for that's extremely annoying!

Mel

[melonfool]

My smart meter tells me how many cubic meters of gas I have used. The old meter gave me a figure in hundreds of cubic feet. For my own records, I convert back to HCF so that I can compare latest readings with those taken over the years. The actual meters can only record volumes, not the amount of energy, properly measured in Joules, kiloJoules or MegaJoules. For some reason, the fashion is to use kWh, which does not make sense to me. A kWh is 3600 kJ or 3.6 MJ. The calorific value of the gas has to be monitored, as it can vary from different sources.

The consumption before and after meter change shows no material change.

TJH

I'll double check all this, as it's in the order of 10x it seems the most logical explanation. Though the dates re the meter change are confusing for this.

But, to be clear, I've never even looked at the new meter, I've just used the "units" on the bill. And the bill has gone down. Last month, for gas, it was £14, for example. Which, when all is said and done, no matter who you are or how big your house is - that's a very low bill. In fact, it's just about the standing charge only!

As a comparator, it was c£50 this time of year previously. And in 2020 I was away from home for many months (probably four at least) so you'd expect the "units per day" to be lower that year by about a third.

Mel

[melonfool]

Looking at photos of the old meter it says m cubed (m with a superscript 3 above it) on the actual meter. And the current bill, referring to the "units" says the same.

It then has "energy used" in kWh but that's not the number I've been using on my spreadsheet. It's a much bigger number.

I just ignore the in house display for gas, it seems a bit pointless. But I do enjoy panicking whenever I put the kettle and toaster on at the same time while I watch the electricity display.

Mel

[Mike4]

Looking at photos of the old meter it says m cubed (m with a superscript 3 above it) on the actual meter. And the current bill, referring to the "units" says the same.

It then has "energy used" in kWh but that's not the number I've been using on my spreadsheet. It's a much bigger number.

I just ignore the in house display for gas, it seems a bit pointless. But I do enjoy panicking whenever I put the kettle and toaster on at the same time while I watch the electricity display.

Mel

Me too, which is why I acquired a gas range cooker to replace my electric! A gas kettle on the vast wok ring boils in about the same time as a leccy kettle for half the price. Or does on LPG anyway. Prolly one third the price on natural gas.

I compiled a league table of energy prices I pay recently. You might find it an interesting read.


Prices per kWh: 17/9/22:

0p Logs gathered in the woods here
7p Kiln dried hardwood logs delivered
7.5p Natural gas
7.6p oil
8p Homefire smokeless fuel (AKA smokeless coal)
14.5p LPG in 47kg bottles
19p Economy 7 night-time mains electricity
25p LPG in 13kg bottles
35p Daytime mains electricity

[Mike4]

I don't think an admin delay can explain it, because it's the wrong way around. Reduced unit recording started in May, new meter was July.
Had it been the other way around I could see that as a possibility. Though I honestly do think all the units are the same but in the light tomorrow I'll look at the new meter and compare the display to my photos of the old meter.

Re gas technician - nope. Noone has been here since way before May. I had a plumber come earlier in the year to quote for a new bathroom (my third attempt) - I mentioned it to him re the pressure dropping and he just agreed with me there must be a leak somewhere in the system. But this would be a water leak, not a gas leak.

If the pressure dropping is due to a water leak (/evaporation) which seems likely then it must have spontaneously cured itself. And the only explanation I can think of for that is scale. We have extremely hard water so I suppose it's vaguely possible that a small hole or evap space could have just got itself scaled up.

But, how does a water leak lead to more gas use? I guess (and this is a huge leap) that more water going into the system means it's working harder to heat it up, or something? But that doesn't make sense because the reason I know when the pressure has dropped is that the water is cold and the heating isn't on.

Could it be my maths? Though this wouldn't explain why Eon are now starting to predict lower annual use. And at the same time they have suddenly doubled my electricity prediction, having just got it back to what it was before the daily 6x jump attributed to Sept last year (I know the reason for that, as do they, and I had to get the ombudsman involved to sort it out - but that's an unrelated issue).

Re the coefficient calc, I took the formula from my bill so it's the right one for my supply.

If I've had a gas leak for years that I've been paying for that's extremely annoying!

Mel

I think you can discount the gas consumption change being anything to do with the water pressure loss. I can't imagine any way for the two to be connected. It can happen if hot water is being continually discharged to waste as fuel is used to heat it, but this would mean tens or hundreds of litres of hot water lost per day.

[melonfool]

Well, I only have mains gas and electric here. Nowhere to burn free stuff.

I have a camping stove and three gas cannisters in the shed ready for the blackouts though!

I can't use a kettle on the hob because the water for my delicate green tea has to be heated carefully to eighty degrees, and I couldn't trust the hob on that score!

The kettle does only cost about 1p per time to heat. It's just the display shows cost per hour. The kettle is obviously not on for an hour. Especially as it heats to a lower temp than boiling and I know exactly how much water to put in for a cup, or my teapot!

Mel

[swill453]

Gas usage in the summer with the heating off will be much less than autumn/winter/spring. I go from about 5 a day in the coldest spells to about 0.1 per day over summer. (This is meter units, ie. cubic meters of gas.)

The earlier years in your table don't isolate summer months, they cover larger ranges which will no doubt include periods when the heating is on.

The later rows showing the "problem" are for shorter periods of a month or two from May this year, when presumably the heating was mostly off. This to me indicates nothing was wrong with the old meter.

Was the heating on much in September? If so, the new meter may be faulty. If not, however, there may be no issue.

Scott.

[DrFfybes]

Hi,
I have kept figures for some years and also had a bit of a problem when we got a smart meter. While the reading on the indoor reading gadget for electric is in kWh the reading for the gas is in cubic meters. I had to build in a conversion into my spreadsheet as follows
Cubic meters of gas times heating coefficient of the gas times the conversion of cubic meters to kWh a recent reading was
69*1.002264*39.2008/3.6 = 753 kWh

Same here, for me 1 unit on the meter is roughly 11 kWh. Our hot water (2 x 20 min per day) and hob used about 0.6-0.7 units per day over summer (approx 8kWh).

Your meter reaings are extrememly sporadic, and presumably are actuals rather than estimed? I not there is a 20 month gap between 2 of them so there should be something in between.

Look at the bills and see how many kWh you are using per day. If it has dropped 11-fold I reckon theyre counting cubic metres as kWh.

Have you changed suppliers and they are using the wrong scale, or has your supplier messed up? If you switched suppliers and ordered a smart meter from them, they may have made an error.

And lastly - CHECK THE METER SERIAL NUMBERS ON YOUR BILL MATCH THE ONES ON YOUR NEW SMART METERS! When we moved in (during COVID) the previous owners' meter was logged wrong. I've no idea who's gas they'd been paying for, but it took months to sort out as first they didn't believe me, wouldn't/couldn't send anyone to check (no meter changes or inspections during covid, not even if it was outside the property) and even then couldn't update the record as they were working from home and didn't have access to that system, as access wasn't needed because no meter changes were taking place!

Paul

[staffordian]

I think swill453 has hit on the answer.

If I look at my usage, in cubic metres, my daily average over a year is around 2.7.

My daily average in January is around 5.7 but my daily average in July is around 0.3.

The more frequent readings you have recently taken, especially given you say the heating is off, tie in roughly with my figures.

To put it into context, in the whole of July I use around 1% of my annual consumption whereas in January it's nearer 18% so around 18 times more. Logical when you think about it, but it clearly shows how the heating accounts for almost all the usage and your very low consumption now is not unusual.

[melonfool]

Gas usage in the summer with the heating off will be much less than autumn/winter/spring. I go from about 5 a day in the coldest spells to about 0.1 per day over summer. (This is meter units, ie. cubic meters of gas.)

The earlier years in your table don't isolate summer months, they cover larger ranges which will no doubt include periods when the heating is on.

The later rows showing the "problem" are for shorter periods of a month or two from May this year, when presumably the heating was mostly off. This to me indicates nothing was wrong with the old meter.

Was the heating on much in September? If so, the new meter may be faulty. If not, however, there may be no issue.

Scott.

I did wonder about this point but thought the averages would cover it.

The heating hasn't been on at all since March, I can't figure out the new thermostat I got in Feb so I'm resisting putting it on.

Your figures do seem to support this, except it started in May and the heating went off in March, but I suppose that's just a lag in reading. I'm doing more regular readings (or was, pre the smart meter, now I just take them from the bill) due to the total mess Eon made of my electricity readings since 2018, for which they had to pay me £100 compensation (sorted out earlier this year) - I've been really cautious since to keep detailed logs.

They are currently telling me that my direct debit needs to be £400 when I am £900 in credit. This is presumably because they've somehow decided my electricity predicted use (as noted on the bill) has doubled. Historic use has not doubled so I don't know how they work out their predictions. My previous DD was £168, and they were suggesting previously to put it up to £225, despite at that point being c£500 in credit. I am not affected by the Oct price rise as I'm on a fix til March.

I don't care about the credit, or the payment really, I just find their methods bewildering!

Me

[melonfool]

I think that sorts it out - it's the closer readings and the long gaps between readings in the past.

Re 2020-2022 - I didn't read it for ages due to all the various stuff we were all dealing with. But all the figures on here are real readings I have taken (and have photos of), up until the smart meter when I started to rely on the bills (I will check the readings against the bill at some point). But none are estimates.

The meter is the correct meter that is being logged and the last one was as well - this was the problem I had with the electricity meter - they were logging against an old meter, ignoring my readings as 'not possible' and then just making up numbers - which they then refused to rectify and when they eventually did, and put all my readings in, they put them in on one month, so that is why my 'estimated annual use' went up by 6x, because they had put a load of readings into one month - idiotic.

But when I realised that was what the problem was with the electricity I checked the gas meter too and when they fitted both new meters I checked the numbers.

I did change supplier in late 2019 from Bulb to Eon, who then moved me to Eon Next.

Thanks all - I will continue to log, watch for the averages if I ever turn the heating on again, and see if I can get the pressure issue sorted at some point.

Mel