Which Tax Forms for Probate (Excepted Estate) ?

[jaizan]

I'm just trying to figure out which tax forms are required for probate.

1 IF full reporting is required, HMRC clearly explain what's needed.

2 When full reporting is not required, HMRC seem much more vague.
We don't need a IHT400 or a IHT421.
An IHT207 is not applicable for our case.

So I figured I'd go through the probate form until we get to a page where it demands an IHT form.
In section 7.9 (below), it asks have we filled in an IHT205.
At the moment, the answer is NO, as at the top of IHT205, it says use this form only for deaths before 1 Jan 2022.

Then section 7.10 asks for the figures from the IHT205 form. That's the form we don't need to fill in for deaths after 1 Jan 2022 !!

Am I to deduce we need to complete an IHT205, despite IHT saying we don't need it ? Effectively calculating the values according to the method in form IHT205, but with no requirement to submit it ?

This job would be a lot easier if they simply told us which form is needed.

[/URL]

[stewamax]

The no IHT is payable and the estate is under £3M (and a further list of other caveats listed in IHTM06000 hold good), the estate is an exempt excepted estate and there is no need to submit anything at all to HMRC. This is an 'official' dispensation.
If the probate registry queries why there has been no submission to HMRC, just send them the output of the HMRC's IHT checker.

[Adamski]

Just to add, to above...

"Which estates are now excepted estates under the new rules?
If the estate is less than £3 million and there is no inheritance tax payable (£1 million for deaths before 1 January 2022)
Where the total amount of lifetime gifts is less than £250,000 (£150,000 for deaths before 1 January 2022),
Where any assets held in trust are worth under £250,000 (£150,000 for deaths before 1 January 2022)"

[gryffron]

As I replied to your question on the other thread, IHT205 is no longer used for deaths since 1 jan 2022.
Beware of out of date info. Not only on private websites, but even gov ones.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41753#p637089

Are you sure the form you’re looking at is up to date? Where did you find it?

Gryff

[Lootman]

The no IHT is payable and the estate is under £3M (and a further list of other caveats listed in IHTM06000 hold good), the estate is an exempt excepted estate and there is no need to submit anything at all to HMRC. This is an 'official' dispensation.

Just to add, to above...

"Which estates are now excepted estates under the new rules?

If the estate is less than £3 million and there is no inheritance tax payable (£1 million for deaths before 1 January 2022)

So if my estate is £4 million, am I supposeded to go through this process even if there is no IHT due (say because it all goes to a spouse)?

And what if moreover all the deceased's assets were held as joint tenants with a surviving spouse? So that not only is there no IHT but there is no need for probate either?

[jaizan]

As I replied to your question on the other thread, IHT205 is no longer used for deaths since 1 jan 2022.
Beware of out of date info. Not only on private websites, but even gov ones.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41753#p637089

Are you sure the form you’re looking at is up to date? Where did you find it?

Gryff

I downloaded the probate form from here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... had-a-will
That's a government page, updated on 27-10-2023.

1 The probate form has IHT205 as one of the IHT forms on the checklist.
2 The probate form asks for figures from IHT205 (on page 19).

Yet, at the top of form IHT205, it says it's not to be used for deaths from 1 Jan 2022.

The one thing I am sure of is that there is a contradiction when they ask for figures from IHT205, but say IHT205 is not to be used.

[monabri]

As I replied to your question on the other thread, IHT205 is no longer used for deaths since 1 jan 2022.
Beware of out of date info. Not only on private websites, but even gov ones.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41753#p637089

Are you sure the form you’re looking at is up to date? Where did you find it?

Gryff

I downloaded the probate form from here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... had-a-will
That's a government page, updated on 27-10-2023.

1 The probate form has IHT205 as one of the IHT forms on the checklist.
2 The probate form asks for figures from IHT205 (on page 19).

Yet, at the top of form IHT205, it says it's not to be used for deaths from 1 Jan 2022.

The one thing I am sure of is that there is a contradiction when they ask for figures from IHT205, but say IHT205 is not to be used.

What Gryff says agrees with

https://www.david-allen.co.uk/what-is-a ... ed-estate/

"As part of a wider consultation to simplify tax and recognising that the IHT205 yielded little to no use to either personal representatives or HMRC, it was dispensed with. Now, personal representatives no longer have to complete an IHT205, rather, they ‘simply’ have to provide total values for the estate which are submitted on the probate application forms."

These guys say the same

https://qlaw.co.uk/probate/excepted-est ... -required/

"What is an Excepted Estate (where Probate is not needed)?
Further changes were introduced recently to streamline and digitalize the probate process and, in essence, make it easier for probate practitioners and individuals to obtain the Grant of Probate where an estate is considered an “excepted estate”. Although you still need to value the estate and compile information about the estate, there is no longer a requirement for a form IHT205 to be completed and submitted with your probate application."

Later in in the same

"The old IHT205 & IHT217 forms are now not needed, and you need to simply complete the probate application online. You still need to value the estate and compile all the information, as you will be asked to give details of the gross and net values, which then appear in the Legal Statement that the executors need to sign to make the probate application."

[jaizan]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not questioning the helpful advice from Gryffron. I'm sure he's right.

I am identifying inconsistencies in the HMRC communication. Specifically, a contradiction between the HMRC probate form, which even has IHT205 on the checklist & is requesting figures from the IHT205 and the IHT205 itself, which says it's redundant.

It would he helpful if gov.co.uk simply stated what's required for an exempt excepted estate.

[gryffron]

They probably haven't bothered to update the paper form because most people now submit probate applications online.

But I agree, it is confusing. My Dad died in 2022, and there was plenty of contradictory information even on gov websites

Gryff