armbands and cards...

[didds]

if this is incorporated in another thread(s) feel free to merge etc as appropriate mods...


A hypothetical scenario ...

So - this armband yellow card thing for the world cup wotsit...

If the captain gets a yellow card for wearing the armband - what happens if he then gives the armband to another player - they get YCd too?

... And having gone around the whole 11 on the pitch the original captain gets the armband back - does he then get a second YC -> RC ...

... and so the band continues around the team as before with each player getting a RC until the ref is forced to abandon the game before its even kicked off ?

...

what happens then? (aside from presumably the oppo being awarded a walk over win.)

And what if both teams do it ?


didds

PS I repeat this is hypothetical. I am not advocating this should happen.

[Charlottesquare]

It does not need to do the full second round, I think (but stand to be corrected) that once one teams drops below 7 players on park match gets abandoned with I think a default 3-0 or 0-3.

However frankly most teams ought not to have turned up, they should have advised FIFA over 10 years ago that Quatar was not a suitable venue and if FIFA had continued awarding the WC to them should have, en masse, left FIFA and created their own event. (Which is, given the various FIFA goings on, what they probably ought to have done irrespective of Quatar)

Still easy to say when we (Scotland) did not even qualify.

[didds]

It does not need to do the full second round, I think (but stand to be corrected) that once one teams drops below 7 players on park match gets abandoned

I suspected as such - Rugby Union has a similar "minimum requirement" etc.

WRT the 3-0 default w/o win thing, could be interestiing if BOTH teams were doing the hypothetical OP scenario...



didds

[servodude]

Still easy to say when we (Scotland) did not even qualify.

Christ, if we waited until we qualified to talk I'd never get anything said!!

[Charlottesquare]

It does not need to do the full second round, I think (but stand to be corrected) that once one teams drops below 7 players on park match gets abandoned

I suspected as such - Rugby Union has a similar "minimum requirement" etc.

WRT the 3-0 default w/o win thing, could be interestiing if BOTH teams were doing the hypothetical OP scenario...



didds

Surely one red would be issued before the other. Of course players from both sides could place armband on arm at precisely the same time, at which point maybe VAR would be needed to determine which was first.

[Charlottesquare]

Still easy to say when we (Scotland) did not even qualify.

Christ, if we waited until we qualified to talk I'd never get anything said!!

Yes-silent since 1998 which is so annoying as we managed 74,78,82,86,90 & 98, back then I just took it pretty much for granted.

[BobbyD]

It does not need to do the full second round, I think (but stand to be corrected) that once one teams drops below 7 players on park match gets abandoned with I think a default 3-0 or 0-3.

From memory the effect of a game being abandoned in such a manner is competition specific and should be laid out in the competition regs.

A brief perusal of the It's not a real World Cup Qatar '22 regs indicate a slight obsession with giving FIFA to do whatever it likes and make the offending Nation liable to compensate as many other parties as possible.

5 Withdrawal, unplayed matches, abandoned matches
and replacement
1.
All Participating Member Associations undertake to play all of their matches
until eliminated from the FIFA World Cup 2022™.
2.
Any Participating Member Association that withdraws from the FIFA World
Cup 2022™ no later than 30 days before the start of the final competition
shall be fined at least CHF 250,000 by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee. Any
Participating Member Association that withdraws from the FIFA World Cup
2022™ within 30 days of the start of the final competition or during the final
competition shall be fined at least CHF 500,000 by the FIFA Disciplinary
Committee.
Participating Member Associations that withdraw from the FIFA World Cup
2022™ at any time may be required to reimburse the team preparation money
that they received from FIFA.
3.
Depending on the circumstances of the withdrawal, the FIFA Disciplinary
Committee may impose additional disciplinary measures, including the
expulsion of the Participating Member Association concerned from
subsequent FIFA competitions. The FIFA Organising Committee may decide
to replace the withdrawn Participating Member Association in question with
another member association.
4.
Any match which is not played or which is abandoned – except in cases of
force majeure recognised by FIFA – may lead to the imposition of disciplinary
measures against the relevant Participating Member Association by the FIFA
Disciplinary Committee in accordance with the FIFA Disciplinary Code.
5.
Any Participating Member Association that withdraws or whose behaviour is
liable for a match not being played or being abandoned may be ordered by
FIFA to reimburse FIFA, Q22 or any other Participating Member Association
for any expenses incurred as a result of its behaviour. In such cases, the
association concerned may also be ordered by FIFA to pay compensation
I General provisions
12
for any damages incurred by FIFA, any Other Organising Body or any other
Participating Member Association. The association in question shall also forfeit
any claim to financial remuneration from FIFA.
6.
If a Participating Member Association withdraws or a match cannot be played
or is abandoned as a result of force majeure, FIFA shall decide on the matter at
its sole discretion and take whatever action is deemed necessary.
7.
Further to the above provision, in the case of a match being abandoned
as a result of force majeure after it has already commenced, the following
principles shall apply:
(a) The match shall recommence at the minute at which play was interrupted
rather than being replayed in full, and with the same scoreline. The
match shall recommence where play was stopped when the match was
interrupted (e.g. with a free kick, throw-in, goal kick, corner kick, kick from
the penalty mark, etc.). If the match was abandoned while the ball was still
in play, it shall restart with a dropped ball from the position of the ball when
play was stopped.
(b) The match shall recommence with the same players on the pitch and
substitutes available as when the match was abandoned.
(c) No additional substitutes may be added to the list of players on the start
list.
(d) The teams can make only the number of substitutions to which they were
still entitled when the match was abandoned.
(e) Players sent off during the abandoned match cannot be replaced.
(f) Any disciplinary measures imposed before the match was abandoned will
be dealt with in accordance with the FIFA Disciplinary Code.
(g) The kick-off time, date, location and any other matter shall be decided by
FIFA.

- https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/2744a0a5e ... ons_EN.pdf

[BobbyD]

It does not need to do the full second round, I think (but stand to be corrected) that once one teams drops below 7 players on park match gets abandoned

I suspected as such - Rugby Union has a similar "minimum requirement" etc.

WRT the 3-0 default w/o win thing, could be interestiing if BOTH teams were doing the hypothetical OP scenario...



didds

Surely one red would be issued before the other. Of course players from both sides could place armband on arm at precisely the same time, at which point maybe VAR would be needed to determine which was first.

If the FA's in question had any spine they'd announce they were sending all 11 players out wearing the armband and dare FIFA to do anything about it.

A world cup without Germany, France and the Netherlands would confirm this Winterval fundraiser as the farce that it is.

[BobbyD]

For those needing a reminder of what a spine looks like:

The Iran team are playing with a backdrop of civil unrest back home. Their captain Ehsan Hajsafi has told a press conference: “My condolences to all the mourning families in Iran … we stand with them and share their pain … we must accept that conditions in our country are not right and our people are not happy … my people are sad and our presence here does not mean that we cannot be a voice for them or should not respect them … we owe our lives to our people and we are here to work hard, fight, show our best performance and score goals, and present them to the bereaved Iranian people … I hope that things will improve and everyone will be happy.”

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/li ... re-updates

Oh, and it looks like the ticketing app is down so fans are having difficulty entering the stadium.

[servodude]

Still easy to say when we (Scotland) did not even qualify.

Christ, if we waited until we qualified to talk I'd never get anything said!!

Yes-silent since 1998 which is so annoying as we managed 74,78,82,86,90 & 98, back then I just took it pretty much for granted.

Yeah it's all been a bit Tom Boyd since

[didds]

so it would seem ultimately FIFA could fine/suspend nations that did do this...

but almost as intimated above would they go that far if faced with several major nations being excommunicated ?

[BobbyD]

so it would seem ultimately FIFA could fine/suspend nations that did do this...

but almost as intimated above would they go that far if faced with several major nations being excommunicated ?

All FIFA care about is monetizing the world Cup, they are dependent on the income. Threaten the legitimacy of the tournament and you put both the organisation's tournament revenue and any extra curicural income its members might be making at risk

[Laughton]

So England (and Wales and others) all chickened out.

May not agree with them but added kudos to the American Olympians in 1968.

[dionaeamuscipula]

So England (and Wales and others) all chickened out.

May not agree with them but added kudos to the American Olympians in 1968.

But they had already participated and won their medals. And their protest was against their own country, not their hosts (a country which had BTW recently violently repressed demonstrations calling for better civil rights).

If you compare the statement made by the Iranian captain which may just get him arrested, to the rapid cave-in from the seven European associations, it is pretty poor of the Europeans to fold. Of course the main fault is with FIFA who had been prewarned they intended to do this but had failed to make any response until today.

I can understand the reasons for not wanting their captains to start the tournament with a yellow or worse, and I can definitely understand why World Cup participation was not the hill on which they wished to battle FIFA. But it would surely be a "punishment" they could live with, given the need within the game to show LGBTQ+ support.

DM

[garfsuncle]

Ah, well, never mind, the England team can continue to bow the knee. Nobody cares, it looks ridiculous and neutrals will think they are genuflecting to their opponents.

Alan

[servodude]

Ah, well, never mind, the England team can continue to bow the knee. Nobody cares, it looks ridiculous and neutrals will think they are genuflecting to their opponents.

Alan

As a neutral I'm pretty confident that would be a very niche interpretation

[didds]

Ah, well, never mind, the England team can continue to bow the knee. Nobody cares, it looks ridiculous and neutrals will think they are genuflecting to their opponents.

Alan

Well Im a neutral - in that its their call not mine or anybody else's, I support the idea behind it but wouldnt probably do the action myself etc - and i don't think it looks ridiculous at all. It is what it is, no more and no less.

whatever.

didds

[BobbyD]

Ah, well, never mind, the England team can continue to bow the knee. Nobody cares, it looks ridiculous and neutrals will think they are genuflecting to their opponents.

Alan

As a neutral I'm pretty confident that would be a very niche interpretation

The armband business really does show the kneeling up for a hollow gesture though.

The England national team, protesting up to the point of mild inconvenience.

[servodude]

Ah, well, never mind, the England team can continue to bow the knee. Nobody cares, it looks ridiculous and neutrals will think they are genuflecting to their opponents.

Alan

As a neutral I'm pretty confident that would be a very niche interpretation

The armband business really does show the kneeling up for a hollow gesture though.

The England national team, protesting up to the point of mild inconvenience.

If you publically announce a protest against an oppressive authoritarian regime, and then they publicly authoritatively oppress that, it does rather make your point for you even if you acquiesce.

[BobbyD]

If you publically announce a protest against an oppressive authoritarian regime, and then they publicly authoritatively oppress that, it does rather make your point for you even if you acquiesce.

But they weren't protesting against FIFA.

Personally I think they should have been, but they weren't...